My witch has just hit 3rd level, she has the healing patron and the fortune, misfortune and cackle hexes.
What feat should i take for 3rd level? Extra hex would be good, but im not sure if it would be redundant...or should i be looking into spell focus?
Extra Hex is nice over the short term, but may start to feel like it was a little bit of a waste later on... (of course, if you have UC's retraining rules that problem can be resolved.)
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Depends on your build.
I went with Extra Hex. I took Flight early because it has benefits before level 5: +4 Swim and Levitate.
Mind you my Witch is in Society Play.
His feat progression:
L1: Accursed Hex-Cackle
H1: Extra Hex(Misfortune)
L2: Slumber Hex
L3: Extra Hex(Flight)
L4: Fortune Hex
L5: Quicken Spell
L6: Open (probably Scar Hex so he can buff party members from a distance) OR Healing Hex as a distant second because most of his PUGs don't have any healing.
You can skip Quicken Spell...I took because of the Magical Lineage+Wayang Spellhunter combo. For one-round gamble takedown he casts Quickened Ill Omen and then Slumber. I play that gun when I run into cheesed encounters. Which was one encounter out of the past 6 adventures, and the boss saved both times anyway. If I could retrain traits I'd probably dump it, but traits are locked.
Spell Focus is a mixed bag. Your Hexes are not boosted by SF, so I consider it more for a feat tax say if your secondary focus was summoning.
I tend to find that extra hex is not that great at the early levels though Evil Eye is pretty much my staple hex and is a good fallback if the target passes its misfortune save. Slumber is good as well.
Other than that I would just stick with the staple caster feats like improved initiative, toughness or even combat casting if you routinely find yourself casting defensively.
My experience with my witch was that hexes are so awesome, both from a mechanical and a role playing perspective, that I almost always took "extra hex" for my witch's feats.
Hmm, i don't really want to take flight before 5th level, i doubt i will need to use the levitate abilities much.
How does accursed hex work for cackle? It's not a 1/day debuff?
I guess i should probably take accursed hex misfortune...or maybe i should just do it for slumber....
Party comprises of a summoner, rogue and a crossbow fighter. So far we havent had any real problems with combat...although we ran into a undead encounter that was way above our level and was doing touch attacks with a DC 15 will save or sleep effect (at second level). Almost had a TPK in that one.
Accursed Hex is really good. Gives you a second chance at taking out a BBEG with your save or suck hexes (slumber especially)
Accursed hex is just a feat. You do not have to link it to a specific hex.
Good point. I guess i will take that for misfortune then.
Im starting to think about whether i should take evil eye. So far the party has been able to end most combats in 3 rounds or less...theres really only time for me to throw out misfortune + fortune most times. Campaign is also mostly undead focused (at least, so far), and evil eye doesnt work against undead.
Currently planning to take slumber at 4th, flight at 6th, which leaves me one hex at 8th level before i get to major hexes, which i could use for either tongues or evil eye i suppose.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Question wrote: Good point. I guess i will take that for misfortune then.
Im starting to think about whether i should take evil eye. So far the party has been able to end most combats in 3 rounds or less...theres really only time for me to throw out misfortune + fortune most times. Campaign is also mostly undead focused (at least, so far), and evil eye doesnt work against undead.
Currently planning to take slumber at 4th, flight at 6th, which leaves me one hex at 8th level before i get to major hexes, which i could use for either tongues or evil eye i suppose.
I've never used Evil Eye. Not because it's bad, it's just because I have better choices. Re-roll on all d20 rolls OR Slumber > -2 on one category of defenses. About the only time it comes into it's own is when you have actions to spare...which usually means a long combat. Which usually means something is wrong.
Okay the undead focus hurts the Witch somewhat as many of your hexes are mind-affecting and most of your spells are the same. As such consider Scar Hex for your 8th. The ability to buff (or heal via Heal Hex) your party and not having to worry about limited range is very nice. And it gives you a backup role when your main guns won't be hitting the targets (undead.)
I dont understand how the scar hex works offensively.
I can see you using it to heal your allies from long range.
But considering most combats last very few rounds, you dont really have a round to waste on scar so that you can cast your hexes from long range.
Accursed Hex is very good, I forgot all about it. Evil eye is one of those hexes that you use as a fallback once other options like slumber and misfortune have been exhausted which will start to matter more as you level up and combat lasts longer. Alternatively, if your party is low on spellcasters I used evil eye to soften the big guys up so that my misfortune and slumber hexes had a better chance to take effect.
Evil eye is one of the best hexes in the game.
1 - even without accursed hex you can use it multiple times on an enemy ( each time debuffing a different thing)
2 - it works for a round even if they save. This makes it really useful even against higher level enemies. One round of a lower AC or lower saves will help your whole party. Evil eye for saves is a great opener that helps the other casters in your party get their debuffs to stick.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Question wrote: I dont understand how the scar hex works offensively.
I can see you using it to heal your allies from long range.
But considering most combats last very few rounds, you dont really have a round to waste on scar so that you can cast your hexes from long range.
I'm sorry where in my post did I say scar hex was for offense? I thought I said the use of scar hex is for buffing/healing your allies.
And you NEVER waste a precious round in combat to cast it.
PRD wrote: Scar (Su): This hex curses a single target touched with horrible scars of the witch's choosing, whether something as simple as a single letter on the target's forehead or blotchy, burnlike scars on his body. The target may make a Will save to resist this hex. These scars do not interfere with the target's senses or prevent it from using abilities, but may affect social interactions. The witch can user her hexes on the scarred target at a range of up to 1 mile...The number of supernatural scars the witch can maintain at once is equal to her Intelligence bonus; once she reaches this limit, she must remove the scar from a current victim in order to mark another. Effects that remove curses can remove the scar. In other words...
Witch (to party): "Good morning campers, who would like me to heal them or buff them from up to a mile away today?"
Makes a backup role as healer/buffer easier.
I still say Evil Eye is a good hex...it's just others are better.
Round by Round
EE Witch: "EE that guy!"
Other Witch: "Slumbered that guy! Anyone want to coup de grace him?"
EE Witch: "EE that guy!"
Other Witch:"Hurm hey Gunslinger why don't you roll your best attack TWICE and take the better roll? Oh that's a crit threat instead of a misfire? Much better"
EE Witch: "EE that guy!"
Other Witch:"Hurm, that evil combat monster is multiattacking? How about he rolls twice on every single attack roll and takes the worse one...nah I'll Slumber him instead."
So Round 3, EE Witch has debuffed 3 foes (or really debuffed one foe.) Other Witch has disabled them and taken them out of the combat.
If Evil Eye wasn't mind-affecting it's be a stronger choice...but I'd rather stick the opponent with rolling twice on everything and taking the worse roll instead. Misfortune is NOT mind-affecting so it can affect undead, plants, constructs, elves, etc...which Evil Eye doesn't.
And since your Hex choices were locked in (well before retraining) I try to select ones that has as few limits and greater utility overall. In my humble opinion Misfortune, even with it's limits, is superior to Evil Eye.
Now in a long drawn out solo fight, sure I'd consider laying down the Evil Eye debuff chain. But in every solo boss fight I've had so far, it's seem to have been a better choice to give the THF/Barbarian or DPR Gunslinger two attacks. Or cripple the boss with double rolls take worse on all his saves, attacks, checks so the rest of the party can pound him.
But I won't have room for Evil Eye till near 10th level..and that's when the Major Hexes become available. :)
Still just my opinion, YMMV and go with what you like.
I took Ability Focus: Slumber Hex and Accursed Hex as my first two feats, Improved Familiar at 7th, Split Hex and the one that makes a spell into a Hex when they came available, and otherwise, spent all my feats on Extra Hex.
More options > fewer options
The Scar hex becomes offensive when used in combination with the Split Hex feat, allowing you to target offensive hexes using the "split" from more than 30ft away.
Unfortunately I haven't yet gotten to play my witch past 5th level, but I took Extra Hex every time up until then.
Some Hexes (Cauldron) are basically 2-in-1 feats, and there are plenty of other passive ones that are as good as feats but flavored specifically for the witch. Accursed Hex is probably what I would take next. After that who knows?
evil eye's strength is that it works for a round even on a save, which with cackle means it works indefinitely. When you're fighting a dragon or outsider or fey it's good to be able to chop down its saves numerically before trying to hit with misfortune through its good will save and HD>CR.
Im not seeing how ability focus can be taken for hexes...
How usefu is improved familiar really? It still seems really fragile and doesnt bring much to combat other than helping to deliver touch spells (which isnt a good idea when its effectively your spellbook).
Man this thread dissapears really quickly.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Question wrote: Im not seeing how ability focus can be taken for hexes...
How usefu is improved familiar really? It still seems really fragile and doesnt bring much to combat other than helping to deliver touch spells (which isnt a good idea when its effectively your spellbook).
Hexes are not spells. Hexes are Su. The appropriate feat to bump up the save DC is Ability Focus, not Spell Focus. Ability Focus is not PFS legal so we are discussing a home game.
Honestly I don't think Extra Hex is all that useful as most of the hexes are turkeys. Featwise, I'd rather grab Accursed Hex, Spell Hex, Split Hex, Ability Focus and then spend the rest on regular caster stuff (metamagic etc.)
Extra Hex is great if you can retrain feats later or if the campaign doesn't go all the way to 20, but if not, you will just end up frontloading on the good hexes and being stuck with the crap at later levels.
Personally I don't see why people like Spell Hex as it is vastly more limited than most hexes (many of which are superior to most feats)
If you are going to 20 you will be getting Major Hexes and at level 18 Grand Hexes and taking those when you have a chance to take Extra Hexes most likely - I doubt most Witch players will run out of Hexes they want to take by level 20.
Ability Focus (misfortune hex), if it's allowed.
Otherwise, Extra Hex.
The impression i got was that ability focus is a monster only feat because well, its in the monster feat section...
If I were you I would consider reading that section. It might say something like:
Most of the following feats apply specifically to monsters, although some player characters might qualify for them (particularly Craft Construct).
Pretty clear from that, that if you qualify for them you are good to go. Luckily Hexes are a special attack and thus qualify for Ability Focus.
Also keep in mind, in 3.5/PF everyone is a monster. Some monsters like Elves and other humanoids just tend to get class levels rather than advanced hit dice.
As for a 3rd Level feat, the best 3rd level feat for everyone that qualifies is Craft Wondrous Item hands down. Making yourself a Cackling Blouse, Headband of Intellect, Stone Familiar, Book of Extended Summons, Cloak of Resistance (at least until you can get Otherwordly Kimono), etc.
Monster Feats can be taken by anyone - Bestiary I spells this out explicitly.
Rycaut wrote: Personally I don't see why people like Spell Hex as it is vastly more limited than most hexes (many of which are superior to most feats) As I stated, hexes tend to be Will save or lose. There are a couple of decent Fort save or lose in there (particularly Agony and Ice Tomb) but there are no Reflex, nothing that affects undead etc. This is where spells like Web Bolt and Mudball can come in to address the gap in your hex repertoire.
Oh good point.
Well this makes choosing a feat even more difficult. Accursed hex or ability focus? Both eventually? What about taking ability focus for slumber as well?
I did consider taking craft wondrous item too, but dont think i will have the feats to spare...and the limited spell selection would probably make crafting even more difficult. But then again the ability to craft items at half cost is very appealing.
Question wrote: Im not seeing how ability focus can be taken for hexes...
How usefu is improved familiar really? It still seems really fragile and doesnt bring much to combat other than helping to deliver touch spells (which isnt a good idea when its effectively your spellbook).
Improved familiar is pretty near indispensable precisely because it is your spellbook. Normal familiars are fragile and even if not targeted can easily die to area effects. Arbiters are not and are the reason all witches should be lawful neutral.
Doesnt that depend on how badly your GM is trying to kill your familiar?
I mean if you get hit by a fireball and your familiar is in your back pack does your familiar need to make saves or whatever? Isnt it counted as having total cover?
And in theory cant spell books and holy symbols get hit by area effects at the same time?
Question wrote: Oh good point.
Well this makes choosing a feat even more difficult. Accursed hex or ability focus? Both eventually? What about taking ability focus for slumber as well?
I did consider taking craft wondrous item too, but dont think i will have the feats to spare...and the limited spell selection would probably make crafting even more difficult. But then again the ability to craft items at half cost is very appealing.
Remember ignoring a prerequisite to make an wondrous item only increases the spellcraft DC by +5 for each prerequisite you don't meet. As a Witch you'll have a hefty number of a skill points and INT as your primary stat, so you should be able to overcome that +5 increase.
Question wrote: Doesnt that depend on how badly your GM is trying to kill your familiar?
I mean if you get hit by a fireball and your familiar is in your back pack does your familiar need to make saves or whatever? Isnt it counted as having total cover?
And in theory cant spell books and holy symbols get hit by area effects at the same time?
Familiars and attended items are different things.
If you reduced a fellow party member and put them in your backpack (say a tiny bard singing) would that make them immune to fireballs?
-James
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Depends on the logic i guess? If fireballs arent capable of harming your clothes, which are presumably made out of flammable material, then why would it harm something in your back pack? Especially considering the back pack is covering the familiar or party member. Anything that can penetrate the back pack to get at whatever is within would obviously harm the back pack or a piece of paper in it too.
Considering the familiar is the spell book for a witch i think it would be unjust to be making effects specially aimed at killing it when its hidden unless the GM wants to run a campaign where people go after the wizard spell books or cleric holy symbol in combat all the time too.
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