When the issue of boxed sets comes up, the general comment is that they are uneconomical - that producing boxes of stuff is just hard to do without having to charge so much that hardly anyone will buy them.
I wondered if anything had changed in that regard given the experiences over the last couple of years with the Beginner Box and (more pertinently, since you're presumably more conerned with profitability) the Pawns boxes and Adventure Card Game. They all have high quality boxes and artwork and are packed with components.
Is it still in the 'too hard' basket? Or can I dream that one day there'll be a way to produce an Absalom boxed set? Or a set detailing the dungeons beneath Kaer Maga? I know you construct 'virtual boxes' via themed/linked products in your various lines we can assemble ourselves. It's not the same though...
Speaking for the UK, where a boxed set usually attracts 20% tax as opposed to a zero-rated book (and apparently separate maps are zero-rated too), I have to say a big noooooooooo! Sorry :(
I didnt mean that it would be compulsory.
I didnt mean that it would be compulsory.
Ahhh. If it's a case of "You can get these two books and this map and those pathfinder pawns together in a box or available separately", that's great :)
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Considering they made no profit at all (and some interviews saw they may have even lost money) on the beginner box. I'm going to guess its still the case.... The box itself isn't the issue, it's getting enough things into the box to make it worth the trouble of a box, while still making it competitive price-wise.
figure 2X maps, (12X2=$24)
2X 32 page booklets (10X2=$20)
Notible personality stats/facecards/ect (??)
Same PCs from the area (6X$1=6)
Box ($5)
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That puts you at a minimum of $55 without anything awe inspiring Looking at the planescape boxed set:
Box ($5)
A Players Guide to the Planes: a 32 page book introducing players to the multiverse. ($13)
A DM’s Guide to the Planes: a 64 page book full of secrets for the DM regarding Sigil and the Planes. ($20)
Sigil and Beyond: A 96 page book introducing Sigil, The City of Doors. It serves as a starting point from which players can branch out to other planes. ($24)
Monstrous Supplement: A 32 page book full of planar monsters. ($13)
4 double-sided poster maps depicting Sigil, Outlands, Outer Planes, and Factions of the Planes (4X$4=16)
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That means full price for the planescape box set today broken out would be $91. So most likely $74.99-79.99 to keep it profitable but not break the consumer wallet...
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Considering they made no profit at all (and some interviews saw they may have even lost money) on the beginner box. I'm going to guess its still the case....
I don't think either of the above statements are true.
They are awesome
And very expensive!
Creative Director
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Paizo of 2013 is a VERY DIFFERENT thing than Paizo of 2003. Or of Paizo of 2010, for that matter.
What was unthikable a few years ago is no longer unthinkable.
Boxed sets are still really complex and difficult to pull off, but as the OP notes... we've essentially done them now. Which would suggest we could do them again in the future for other products if we wanted.
Interesting, eh?
What was unthikable a few years ago is no longer unthinkable.
Boxed sets are still really complex and difficult to pull off, but as the OP notes... we've essentially done them now. Which would suggest we could do them again in the future for other products if we wanted.
I'm really glad to hear that, James. Not as glad as if you'd gone on to say "and next march, keep an eye out for..." But still very happy.
I'll keep my eyes and ears open. :)
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Considering they made no profit at all (and some interviews saw they may have even lost money) on the beginner box. I'm going to guess its still the case....I don't think either of the above statements are true.
I apologize then I thought it was an offhand comment in one of the paizocon panels I recently listened to
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Night Below: 20th Anniversary Edition Boxed Set, reformatted to function under the Pathfinder rules. ;) (Hey, Pathfinder is truer to what AD&D was than that "system" they call 4th edition. WotC so poisoned the well with it that I'm not even going to bother looking at 5th edition. They've lost me forever.)
This still going on?
Paizo of 2013 is a VERY DIFFERENT thing than Paizo of 2003. Or of Paizo of 2010, for that matter.
What was unthikable a few years ago is no longer unthinkable.
Boxed sets are still really complex and difficult to pull off, but as the OP notes... we've essentially done them now. Which would suggest we could do them again in the future for other products if we wanted.
Interesting, eh?
Tease.
Considering they made no profit at all (and some interviews saw they may have even lost money) on the beginner box. I'm going to guess its still the case....I don't think either of the above statements are true.I apologize then I thought it was an offhand comment in one of the paizocon panels I recently listened to
I've heard non-Paizo people suggest that it was a "loss leader" - an entry level product designed to introduce the game in the hopes people would then go on to buy the profitable stuff.
However, I'm pretty sure I've seen Vic Wertz debunk that directly at some point on the forums (although I dont have any link). My recollection was that he said it had a very slim margin but that it definitely wasnt designed with the expectation of actually losing money.
I've heard non-Paizo people suggest that it was a "loss leader" - an entry level product designed to introduce the game in the hopes people would then go on to buy the profitable stuff.
However, I'm pretty sure I've seen Vic Wertz debunk that directly at some point on the forums (although I dont have any link). My recollection was that he said it had a very slim margin but that it definitely wasnt designed with the expectation of actually losing money.
Consider it debunked.
Cheers. I bought four copies, so if it were loss-making, I'd feel kinda bad! :p
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I didnt mean that it would be compulsory.Ahhh. If it's a case of "You can get these two books and this map and those pathfinder pawns together in a box or available separately", that's great :)
This. If they do put out a boxed set of something, I'd much rather it be an OPTION for how to get that material, rather than the only way.
hardcovers > boxed sets
If they do put out a boxed set of something, I'd much rather it be an OPTION for how to get that material, rather than the only way.
Is it a big deal? The beginner box is technically only available as a boxed set - but within days of release, there were several places you could buy individual components.
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Speaking for the UK, where a boxed set usually attracts 20% tax as opposed to a zero-rated book (and apparently separate maps are zero-rated too), I have to say a big noooooooooo! Sorry :(
Even with the 20% VAT the boxes aren't too bad as long as you don't buy direct from Paizo. Some of it seems to be absorbed by the retailer. It's certainly a lot cheaper that ordering direct and paying postage, 20% VAT to Border Force, and £8 to the post office.
Do you have a reference for the maps comment? Can I claim back the VAT I've paid on previous orders of Map Packs and Flip Mats?
Just make a big box of Absalom and charge what u like
Speaking for the UK, where a boxed set usually attracts 20% tax as opposed to a zero-rated book (and apparently separate maps are zero-rated too), I have to say a big noooooooooo! Sorry :(
Speak for yourself! UK here and would absolutely love one!
Boxed sets are still really complex and difficult to pull off, but as the OP notes... we've essentially done them now. Which would suggest we could do them again in the future for other products if we wanted.
Interesting, eh?
I think I saw somewhere else on the forums a mention of a possible Sandpoint box... I'm about to start a ROTR campaign, so definitely want to say yes to that :D
Yep. I'll take a sandpoint boxed set too.
Speaking for the UK, where a boxed set usually attracts 20% tax as opposed to a zero-rated book (and apparently separate maps are zero-rated too), I have to say a big noooooooooo! Sorry :(
Even with the 20% VAT the boxes aren't too bad as long as you don't buy direct from Paizo. Some of it seems to be absorbed by the retailer. It's certainly a lot cheaper that ordering direct and paying postage, 20% VAT to Border Force, and £8 to the post office.
Do you have a reference for the maps comment? Can I claim back the VAT I've paid on previous orders of Map Packs and Flip Mats?
So far the only references I have are an Amazon Map Pack order that was zero-rated and a comment from someone on the boards that they weren't hit for import duty on maps.
Having seen the Flip Maps now I have a feeling they'll get taxed as they're not a folded sheet and closer to parts of a boardgame.
I'm going to fire an enquiry to Paizo asking what they actually list these as on customs forms.
"Maps and Charts" are supposedly zero-rated according to HMRC
( http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/forms-rates/rates/goods-services.htm )
However, I have a feeling that leaves it down to whoever happens to be interpreting the rules that day as to whether or not a fictional RPG map is classified as a map or a game/poster. Chances are nobody can give a definitive answer :(
Also, ugh, I like getting things direct from Paizo so I get the PDFs :( So a boxed set would basically end up with me having to weigh the price of the additional PDF and whatever I could save buying it from Amazon or somewhere against the extra cost from Paizo. It'd also cause a bit of a mess with my subscription if I had to keep cancelling it every time a boxed set came out in the RPG line and restarting it afterwards :( As it is, I'm already considering cancelling my maps subscription now...
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So far the only references I have are an Amazon Map Pack order that was zero-rated and a comment from someone on the boards that they weren't hit for import duty on maps.
Having seen the Flip Maps now I have a feeling they'll get taxed as they're not a folded sheet and closer to parts of a boardgame.
I'm going to fire an enquiry to Paizo asking what they actually list these as on customs forms
They are listed as 'Accessories' and that means that UK Border Force consider them to attract 20% VAT as they don't open the box to see what they actually are. If they did, it's debatable whether they would call them a map.
If the value of the VAT attracting part of an order is less than £15, then the VAT is waived. So it is usually OK if one non-book item is in a Paizo subscription order to the UK. That might be why they didn't get hit for VAT.
For boxed sets, it would very likely be cheaper in total to buy the boxed set off someone local and then buy the PDF from Paizo. I cancelled my Pawns subscription for this reason.
They are listed as 'Accessories' and that means that UK Border Force consider them to attract 20% VAT as they don't open the box to see what they actually are. If they did, it's debatable whether they would call them a map.If the value of the VAT attracting part of an order is less than £15, then the VAT is waived. So it is usually OK if one non-book item is in a Paizo subscription order to the UK. That might be why they didn't get hit for VAT.
For boxed sets, it would very likely be cheaper in total to buy the boxed set off someone local and then buy the PDF from Paizo. I cancelled my Pawns subscription for this reason.
Yeah, I read up on that £15 rule over the weekend, and have an enquiry into Paizo asking if there's some way they can always just package the maps seperately to the rest of my monthly order to keep them under the limit.
I'd already decided to go the Amazon route for the Bestiary Boxes, but I don't mind not having the PDFs of those. I'd really like to keep the map PDFs but buying them here and then buying the PDF on top is a bit too much for me, so depending on the reply I may be stuck with hardcopy only :(
The one map I've had from Amazon UK which was zero-rated I'm going to assume is just an error on the part of whoever at Amazon inventoried that product and decided whether it needed VAT-rating or not. Meehh!
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I love the Pawn Boxes. I've given out 3 as gifts to various DMs already.
There are lots of DMs that want dearly to use minis, but also hate doing so because (a) they don't have minis for every monster in their adventure, resulting in an ugly hodgepodge, (b) unpainted minis range from dull to hideous, and (c) the painted ones are often expensive or time-consuming to replace so they don't want people to touch them. And lets not get into the headache of getting small, large, huge, gargantuan, colossal etc. minis as well.
Cardstock minis on the other hand are great. You can show the players exactly what they see when they kick in the door, and they can instantly figure out how big it is relative to their own characters. PF cardstocks are vibrant and colorful. They have no limbs or other spindly bits to accidentally snap off or break. And in a pinch, you can even photocopy one onto a sheet of paper and tape it over some of the others if you need 5 more drow or whatever. They're brilliant.