Horsemaster's Saddle + Escape Route

[VerdantSF]

This combination seems rather powerful for mounted warriors. If I'm reading this correctly, it means as long as you're riding, you're sharing a space with your mount and thus both of you no longer provoke attacks of opportunity while moving. Is this really as good as it sounds or am I missing something?

Horsemaster's Saddle
This ornate military saddle, tooled with an elaborate equine motif, grants the mount a +5 competence bonus on Acrobatics checks and the mount's rider a +5 competence bonus on Ride checks. In addition, the mount gains the benefits of any teamwork feats possessed by the rider.

Escape Route (Combat, Teamwork)
You have trained to watch your allies’ backs, covering them as they make tactical withdraws.

Prerequisite: none

Benefit: An ally who also has this feat provokes no attacks of opportunity for moving through squares adjacent to you or within your space.

[partyrico]

I do agree that its a powerful combination. While this probably wasn't intentional, it works RAW.

[Name Violation]

gains the benefits, but doesnt gain the feat

it only works if there is another ally who possesses the feat

the mount doesnt provoke, but you still do

[Scavion]

Name Violation wrote:

gains the benefits, but doesnt gain the feat

it only works if there is another ally who possesses the feat

the mount doesnt provoke, but you still do

Why would you provoke an attack of opportunity if it's the horse thats moving?

[richard develyn]

Well, IMO, first of all I think that "gaining the benefit" means gaining the feat. After all part of the benefit of having the feat is the way that you help others, and I think that if the intention was that it shouldn't be the case then the wording wouldn't have relied on this sort of semantic ambiguity.

Secondly, I don't think Escape Route works with your mount when you're moving together because neither of you is moving within each other's space. Relative to each other, you're both stationary.

Richard

[Scavion]

richard develyn wrote:

Well, IMO, first of all I think that "gaining the benefit" means gaining the feat. After all part of the benefit of having the feat is the way that you help others, and I think that if the intention was that it shouldn't be the case then the wording wouldn't have relied on this sort of semantic ambiguity.

Secondly, I don't think Escape Route works with your mount when you're moving together because neither of you is moving within each other's space. Relative to each other, you're both stationary.

Richard

Its also adjacent spaces. Plus the flavor and text of the feat seems to support it. As you move together your watching each others' backs.

[Durinor]

It's a nice combination but I wouldn't say it was too powerful. Where's the saddle from?

[richard develyn]

Horsemaster's saddle is in Ultimate Equipment. It costs 12K.

When you are mounted, you're not adjacent to your mount.

IMO, 12K plus one feat, or one feat for you, another for your mount, in exchange for no movement AoOs is *very* good.

Compare with Dodge and Mobility for +5 AC to AoOs.

I'm not sure about flavour. I think the point is that you watch your colleague's back when he moves and he watches yours when you do. I can't see how you could both do it at the same time. But this is all more IMO.

Would someone mind giving me an opinion on my Jumper question, BTW? I've just bumped it up.

Cheers

Richard

[Sober Caydenite]

richard develyn wrote:

Horsemaster's saddle is in Ultimate Equipment. It costs 12K.

When you are mounted, you're not adjacent to your mount.

IMO, 12K plus one feat, or one feat for you, another for your mount, in exchange for no movement AoOs is *very* good.

Compare with Dodge and Mobility for +5 AC to AoOs.

I'm not sure about flavour. I think the point is that you watch your colleague's back when he moves and he watches yours when you do. I can't see how you could both do it at the same time. But this is all more IMO.

Would someone mind giving me an opinion on my Jumper question, BTW? I've just bumped it up.

Cheers

Richard

But you are definitely "in its space," which is the other requirement to avoid AoOs.

[richard develyn]

You are, but you're not *moving* in its space. You are stationary in its space - you and its space are moving together.

Richard

[Mythic Evil Lincoln]

Shhhh...

I've been building to this forever. I couldn't bear to see it errata'd out from under me before I get it.

[Ravingdork]

richard develyn wrote:

When you are mounted, you're not adjacent to your mount.

How is being immediately above any less adjacent than being next to?

[richard develyn]

You're not immediately above, you're occupying the same space.

At least, I've always assumed so. Otherwise you'd have to worry about which of the four possible 5' squares you are above, and what's your reach going to be (including upwards).

Richard

[Nierak]

The distinction between gaining the benefit for the mount only and gaining the feat is quite big.

For instance how would amplified rage work raging beast mounting barbarian. Would they both gain the amplified rage bonuses, or just the mount.

Thats just 1 example of where this distinction would make a difference.

[SoonerTed]

Nierak wrote:

The distinction between gaining the benefit for the mount only and gaining the feat is quite big.

For instance how would amplified rage work raging beast mounting barbarian. Would they both gain the amplified rage bonuses, or just the mount.

Thats just 1 example of where this distinction would make a difference.

Amplified Rage specifically says both have to be raging AND have the feat. If your mount can't rage, it doesn't matter if it has the feat or not. That example doesn't make sense.

The plain text of Escape Route says that the square you are in and the adjacent squares do not provoke attacks of opportunity. You are in the square your mount is in. Any movement out of that square does not provoke. Moving out of the next square also wouldn't provoke.

The benefits of the feat are the same as having the feat; otherwise the saddle would have no benefit whatsoever.