Alright, this recently came up in a game because I'm actually playing a Vampire, and it came up that in the listings, it says that if the coffin home is destroyed, the vampire can't reform and simply dies once it hits 0 hit points. This struck me as interesting because it reminded me of the Lich, and when I checked it pretty much said the exact same thing.
SO I had to ask, what happens if a coffin home or phylactery is destroyed, but the vamp/lich in question doesn't die, and is given time. Would they be able to rebuild said coffin home/phylactery, or would they simply forever be in danger of suffering true death? I suppose with the lich and the Phylactery serving as a home for it's soul, I can at least partially understand it, but I'm not entirely sure how the same would apply to a vampire. Even with the lich, you'd figure someone with enough magical know-how would be able to pull back that fragment of their soul given the proper time.
If anyone knows the proper rules for this, please let me know, otherwise, I'd love to hear opinions.
I don't think the Lich can ever get that soulshard back. He literally put his soul in a box (or gem, or priceless ming vase, what have you) and it was destroyed.
With Vampires, I'm 99.9% certain it says somewhere that a Vampire CAN get a new coffin. But it has to be built to exacting specifications (in the same style, using the exact same wood - or an extremely similar wood - grown under similar conditions, etc). Don't quote me on it. I'll go look around right now.
Right. I can't find proper rules on the Vampire-coffin nonsense. I'm pretty sure I'm just remembering general mythology.
I mean, I know in some old mythos the key to vampire coffin homes was that it had some soil from where they were buried before they rose. I would think that a vampire given enough time (or proper preperation) could simply gather up enough soil for multiple coffin homes, or to make a new one.
Curse you LazarX -shakefist-. But yeah, that's what I'm afraid of.
To rest, heal, and avoid the destructive properties of sunlight, vampires keep coffin sanctuaries.
Note the plural. That is from the Vampire Revisited entry. Also...
Should its coffin be destroyed, a vampire goes to great lengths to find or create a new one that satisfies its deathly needs. Exactly what such needs are, however, varies between individuals, and only a tenacious hunter might reveal the specific mystery of a vampire’s resting place.
To rest, heal, and avoid the destructive properties of sunlight, vampires keep coffin sanctuaries.Note the plural. That is from the Vampire Revisited entry. Also...
Should its coffin be destroyed, a vampire goes to great lengths to find or create a new one that satisfies its deathly needs. Exactly what such needs are, however, varies between individuals, and only a tenacious hunter might reveal the specific mystery of a vampire’s resting place.
Awesome thanks. That satisfies the fact that they CAN make a new one. That's all that really matters, thanks man.
And while not RAW if a Lich's phylactery/hidey hole came under attack while the Lich was not around I'd be extremely surprised if the Lich in question didn't immediately become aware of it and come calling ASAP because of specific spell defense(s) left behind. And a PC Lich better have already spelled out just what those defenses are. And as a GM running a Lich I would already have those defenses figured out beforehand.
Yeah, a friend and I were talking about the possibility of a Lich using and Imprisonment on his phylactery, and then putting a Contingent Freedom on himself in case he died.
And while not RAW if a Lich's phylactery/hidey hole came under attack while the Lich was not around I'd be extremely surprised if the Lich in question didn't immediately become aware of it and come calling ASAP because of specific spell defense(s) left behind. And a PC Lich better have already spelled out just what those defenses are. And as a GM running a Lich I would already have those defenses figured out beforehand.Yeah, a friend and I were talking about the possibility of a Lich using and Imprisonment on his phylactery, and then putting a Contingent Freedom on himself in case he died.
A phylactery isn't a creature and therefore isn't an appropriate target for Imprisonment.
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The 3.5 campaign Red Hand of Doom had the baddies steal the phylactery of a (neutral in the conflict) lich, so as to blackmail it to do stuff for them.
When my players recovered it, the adventure expected the heroes to return the phylactery, or to go and destroy the lich. The lich was way above their pay-grade, so combat = suicide.
My players asked me why they couldn't just destroy the phylactery now, while they were safe 100s of miles away. If the phylactery had defences on it they must have been neutralised by the baddies already, or the lich would have already got his phylactery back.
Not wanting to massively derail the plot, I made up something about the lich being able to fashion a new one if the old one was destroyed, but not if it still existed.
They asked, if that's the case, why would the lich care about that phylactery? Why would he give in to blackmail?
Er...because...if he didn't give in to blackmail the baddies would destroy the phylactery just before they attacked the lich, and right now the lich doesn't know that the heroes have acquired it, nor does he know that the heroes are a pushover compared to the baddies.
Why can't the lich scry his own phylactery?
Erm...it's protected from scrying...
I tell ya, my players were not happy.