At level 10, a magus gains Fighter Training (Ex) allowing him to treat half his class levels as fighter levels for the purposes of taking fighter feats.
What exactly is the best use of this ability?
Fighter Feats a Magus can take:
At level 10: Martial Versatility, Shield Specialization, Weapon Specialization
At level 12: Disrupting Shot, Disruptive
At level 16: Greater Shield Focus, Greater Weapon Focus.
Looking over the list of potential feats given access by Fighter Training, it seems only 4 of them are even applicable to a magus, who can't use a shield and will rarely use a ranged weapon.
How good are Weapon Specialization and Greater Weapon Focus for a magus?
Of all of them, Martial Versatility seems the most interesting, since it appears that it would allow a dervish dance magus to apply his dex bonus to damage with any one-handed melee weapon.
First of all i am not sure if you can use martial versatility to change the scimitar of the dervish dance feat.
I was always fond of the weapon specialization and more importantly the greater weapon focus.
Greater weapon focus is a +1 to attack. Weapon Specialization is a flat +2 to your attacks. They're both mathematical improvements, though they seem slight ones for a level 16 feat.
Martial Versatility reads: "Choose one combat feat you know that applies to a specific weapon (e.g., Weapon Focus). You can use that feat with any weapon within the same weapon group."
Dervish Dance (a combat feat) reads: "When wielding a scimitar with one hand, you can use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on melee attack and damage rolls."
Dervish Dance is a combat feat that applies to a specific weapon, the scimitar. I don't see how you can interpret the rules any other way than that Martial Versatility would allow you to use it with any weapon in the same weapon group as the scimitar.
Even so it's not great, since there aren't any one-handed weapons better than the scimitar for a magus focused in it.
That IS an interesting thing to do, if it's legal (it looks like it, but it feels fishy somehow).
It'd be neat to have a Dex based guy wielding, say, a battleaxe effectively.
That IS an interesting thing to do, if it's legal (it looks like it, but it feels fishy somehow).
It'd be neat to have a Dex based guy wielding, say, a battleaxe effectively.
It's also a four feat investment that only humans could do, and its a million times easier to just spend some gold on the agile enhancement. It also doesn't remove the requirement that you need to have one hand free to use Dervish Dance, so no Battle Axe.
I'd allow this, personally.
Considering Kensai get Weapon Focus for free, and can get access to Fighter Training sooner, it might not be too bad.
It also doesn't remove the requirement that you need to have one hand free to use Dervish Dance, so no Battle Axe.
Battleaxes are 1H weapons. Greataxes are the 2H ones.
I like Pin Down and Teleport Tactician, but both are much better on a reach build and require fighter level 11 and 10, respectively. So only viable for a Kensai to pick up.
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Dervish Dance could not apply to an ax, even with Martial Versatility. The scimitar falls into the "Blades, Heavy" group, while the battle ax falls into the "Axes" group. These groups are defined under the Weapon Training fighter class feature.
The magus could use a falcata, though, if he had the proficiency.
I like Pin Down and Teleport Tactician, but both are much better on a reach build and require fighter level 11 and 10, respectively. So only viable for a Kensai to pick up.
It annoys me that a class ability is only really attractive to an archtype, but I suppose it's better for a kensai.
The magus could use a falcata, though, if he had the proficiency.
Interesting. I wonder which is mathematically superior, the falcata or the scimitar, for a magus? My gut tells me the scimitar still wins, since the x3 only applies to weapon damage and not spell damage, while the additional +2 to threat range from the scimitar does apply to spell damage, but as I've said in other threads, I'm definitely no math jockey. :p
nteresting. I wonder which is mathematically superior, the falcata or the scimitar, for a magus? My gut tells me the scimitar still wins, since the x3 only applies to weapon damage and not spell damage, while the additional +2 to threat range from the scimitar does apply to spell damage, but as I've said in other threads, I'm definitely no math jockey. :p
Depends on how many spells you cast and of what type. You can swing a falcata all day for the x3 critical, but you only have two dozen spells or so, and those aren't necessarily all going to be combat touch spells that you can cast through your toadsticker.
One way to think about it is a choice -- if you spend all your feats on metamagic to make your shocking grasp spells awesome, you want the scimitar. If you want to spend all your feats to make your hand to hand abilities awesome without burning spells, you can save your spells for something else.
Nothing that is less than 18-20 threat range is better than the scimitar for a Magus. 19-20/x3 and 18-20/x2 are fairly evenly matched in teir own rights, but when you factor in the easy access to Keen (you just need to be a 5th level Magus...) and the fact the spells get the range but not the multiplier...
It's no contest.
You could make an argument for the whip just due to the sheer reach of it, maybe. I'd still take the scimitar.
Or you could just use the Agile enhancement.
Dervish Dance could not apply to an ax, even with Martial Versatility. The scimitar falls into the "Blades, Heavy" group, while the battle ax falls into the "Axes" group. These groups are defined under the Weapon Training fighter class feature.
The magus could use a falcata, though, if he had the proficiency.
Blargle argle crush my dreams why don't you.
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If you are a Bladebound Kensai with a whip, why care about hitting with an attack for damage anyway? Just Dirty Trick or Trip any foes within 15 feet and do a shocking grasp in it as well. Of course, you give up the spell combat choice.
@Rynjin:Dervish Dance a Bastard Sword as a Kensai (or myrmidarch, or other archetype that gives the level-4 fighter training). It is 1d10+Dex in a single stroke. It is even better than a battleaxe (minus the theme, which makes me sad).
as a magus ill take 1d6 18-20 anytime over 1d10 19-20
as the die you roll is no damage copared to the spells you can cast (ie shocking grasp)
But I do wonder if there are anny other feats besides greater weapon focus that could indeed be usefull.
I think it isnt a well thought out class abilety although the magus dont realy need it
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Also, Greater Weapon Focus and Weapon Spec I think are best left with the 21 feat fighters that can afford to blow a feat on +2 damage or +1 attack roll.
as a magus ill take 1d6 18-20 anytime over 1d10 19-20
as the die you roll is no damage copared to the spells you can cast (ie shocking grasp)
I am slightly inclined to disagree due to the diminished spellcasting that kensai's get, which makes me save my spells for big fights. 1d10 is great for the fights with mooks. Also, fighters with this feat is great because you get a bunch of feats. Now I need to make a duelist with a bastard sword.
Battleaxes are 1H weapons. Greataxes are the 2H ones.
It also doesn't remove the requirement that you need to have one hand free to use Dervish Dance, so no Battle Axe.
Well slap on a Red Shirt and change your name to "Fact Checker," 'cause you're right. My apologies.
Not that it helped me any, since they're also not Blades. =/
My Fact Check fu is weak, lol.
Also, Greater Weapon Focus and Weapon Spec I think are best left with the 21 feat fighters that can afford to blow a feat on +2 damage or +1 attack roll.
I am slightly inclined to disagree due to the diminished spellcasting that kensai's get, which makes me save my spells for big fights. 1d10 is great for the fights with mooks. Also, fighters with this feat is great because you get a bunch of feats. Now I need to make a duelist with a bastard sword.as a magus ill take 1d6 18-20 anytime over 1d10 19-20
as the die you roll is no damage copared to the spells you can cast (ie shocking grasp)
once you can get enough pearl's of power you'll know what i mean (get craft wonderous or hope someone in your party takes it (i took it))