Druid with Eldritch Heritige: Sylvan

[Gonn]

Using Pathfinder-only rules (no 3.x) is it possible to have two have two animal companions without an archetype making you split the levels?

I understand that when you are say, a paladin with a bonded horse, who then becomes (for argument's sake) a druid, that the class levels stack for both guys. ie a level 9 character (5 paladin/4 druid) has a level 9 horse.

However, is this true when accessing an animal companion through a feat? (technically two) such as Eldritch Heritige: Sylvan?

If this doesn't work, are there any ideas on how to have two full-level animal companions? I've got a character concept of a guy that just gets his pets to fight for him. (think animal tamer, or poke mon master without the sci-fi balls)

[deuxhero]

If EH: Sylvan is even legal is questioned, but if it is legal, RAW because EH gives virtual sorcerer levels, it stacks (which gets OP fast).

Animal/Scalykind Cleric (though I would recommend Feather/Dinosaur if you have free control of subdomains) may potentially do it (note 1: there is only a single deity in PF's default setting with that combo 2: he's evil 3:I think he lost animal at some point, so you may need the separatist archetype).

[Gonn]

Thanks for the response, I never thought of using a cleric! :)
I might just build a healer cleric that has a tank pet and therefore be able to contribute to combat and healing. This'll be awesome!

But, after an exhaustive search, I found that this has already been answered via James Jacobs and in several "guide to PFS play" PDFs.

In those guides, it read:

"How many animals can I have at any given time? During
the course of a scenario, you may have one combat animal
and as many noncombat animals as you like. You make
this choice at the beginning of the scenario. This means if
you’re a Ranger 5/Druid 5, you need to pick which animal
companion is your combat animal. Noncombat animals
(ponies, horses, pet dogs, and so on) cannot participate
in combat at all. This clarification is meant to reinforce
the same line of logic that prohibits the Leadership feat
in Pathfinder Society Organized Play—you only have
4 or 5 hours to play and allowing multiple additional
combatants only slows down play. Finally, if you have so
many noncombat animals that their presence is slowing a
session down, the GM has the right to ask you to select one
noncombat animal and leave the rest behind. Our advice
for the campaign: you can have a mount, a pet, and your
class-granted animals with you during the scenario, but try
to avoid going any further than that. It can be disruptive,
and disruptions are fun for no one. As an additional bit
of clarification, the summoner’s eidolon is considered an
animal companion for the above considerations."

The entire section of the guides that the above quoted line was from has since been removed, likely due to archetypes built around having multiple combat animals. but still.

[Quandary]

yeah. only one AC unless explicitly stated otherwise.
and i don't believe you can count one class level more than one time
(i.e. from Nature Bond/Animal Domain and an illegal EH:Sylvan also wanting to count that class level)

[DarkPhoenixx]

"Noncombat animals(ponies, horses, pet dogs, and so on) cannot participate
in combat at all."
So if i have horse as a class feature then it cant fight with me? Or i can count it as combat animal?

Where it says that sylvan is illegal?

[blackbloodtroll]

So, the Aasimar Nature Oracle, with the combat focused horse, is not allowed in PFS?

[Gauss]

There is one example of two ACs and that is in the case where you have two ACs that cannot stack. The FAQ on Cavaliers and AC's covers this example.

FAQ

- Gauss

[Isil-zha]

DarkPhoenix: Sylvan is an alternate bloodline for the wild-blooded sorcerer. This may not be eligible for EH.

[Quandary]

Sylvan isn't really an 'alternate' bloodline, which implies that you have it instead of the normal bloodlines.
Wildblooded Sorcerors still select a normal bloodline, and continue to count as having that.
They derive their bonus Class Skill, bonus spell list, and bonus feat list from that Sorceror Bloodline,
as well as the BL Powers not changed by the Wildblooded Archetype associated to the Sorceror Bloodline.
It's not an alternate Sorceror Bloodline, as much as an alternate Bloodline Power/Arcana for Sorcerors with that Archetype and Sorceror BL.

The Wildblooded "mutant bloodlines" do not themselves have an associated class skill, necessary to qualify for EH via skill focus.

EH also states you select a "SORCEROR bloodline" whose class skill is one you have skill focus in.
The Wildblooded options are never called "sorceror bloodlines"
(wildblooded archetype sorcerors select those separately, which determines what happens when they take the wildblooded archetype),
but are specifically called "mutant bloodlines", which EH does not allow selecting (other than the skill focus issue).

So they're simply not a legal option to draw powers from via EH,
any more than other Sorceror Archetypes like Tattooed Sorceror which also replaces BL powers.

[Isil-zha]

bad choice of words... what Quandary said is what I was trying to say.

[Quandary]

yeah, of course even I will just shorten things to "bloodline" (without specification of "sorceror bloodline") when casually discussing things, because it just rolls of the tongue easier, and frankly, doesn't matter for anything but EH. that doesn't mean the rules work otherwise than they say, of course.

likewise, when discussing improved familiars, somebody called me out for referring to 'diagonal alignment steps', which i had just adopted as short-hand for 'one (non-diagonal) step in each alignment axis', since they're functionally equivalent... but that doesn't mean that some future option or auxiliary mechanic couldn't make the distinction between those meaningful. people make up 'mental shorthand' to explain how the rules work all the time, you just need to recognize that such mental short-hand can't be taken literally because it isn't the actual rules wording.

[Apraham Lincoln]

The only one i can think of is the beastmaster achetype for rangers that lets you split your effective level up between many ACs. You can take boon companion feat once for each pet so you could have 2 level 8 ACs at level 8

[Michael Sayre]

It looks like Quandary already touched on this, but Eldritch Heritage Sylvan is not a legal option. The Sylvan Bloodline is a Sorcerer Archetype that changes the Fey Bloodline. It replaces the Bloodline Power and Bloodline Arcana gained at 1st level, and the Bloodline power gained at 15th. Since you do not have an Arcana to replace, you cannot take the archetype.

[Gonn]

Thank you for all of your responses. :)
But I must disagree with the ruling that EH: Sylvan isn't a legal option.
Just because a power also counts as an arcana, (to my mind) doesn't mean that I need to get the arcana too. I feel that they listed it under "bloodline power" (even though bloodline arcana was higher up on the page) for a reason. Even if it *counts* as an arcana, it is a bloodline power.

The archetype issue is in heavy debate after this FAQ due to it's last line.

But I don't want to turn this into another debate on whether it's allowed. Frankly, I just want them to FAQ it as it's a popular topic on these forums.

[ShoulderPatch]

As Quandry explained (rather well), within the RAW it's already disallowed. A FAQ isn't really needed... though it would be nice, if for no other reason than to end this question being asked over and over by people who are confusing disagree with dislike.

[Gonn]

It's not as much that I dislike the ruling, I honestly disagree with it.

I also believe that if it's brought up as much as it is, then clearly not everyone is reading the rules in the same way. If I were working at Paizo, I'd bring this up if for no other reason than to end the debate.