According to the rules, "if you ever roll a natural 1 while attempting to activate an item and you fail, then you can't try to activate that item again for 24 hours." My question is, is the item unable to be used by anybody, or is it just unable to be used by the person that failed to use it and rolled the nat 1?
Try Again: Yes, but if you ever roll a natural 1 while attempting to activate an item and you fail, then you can't try to activate that item again for 24 hours
Based on the above from the Paizo Ref Doc it repeatedly uses "you", so I read it as only the PC attempting can no longer use it, but at PaizoCon it was understood as the wand is locked out.
Also, based on the above you have to roll a 1 AND fail, so you're immune if you have a +19 in UMD.
Will look around a bit more for something that contradicts it just locking out for the individual PC.
To me, it is clear that it is 'you'. If it were the wand is not usable by anyone it should state that. :)
- Gauss
Wow I thought for sure 1 was an autofail no matter how high your bonus was. I'm gonna have to go reread that. The way its written I read it as 'natural 1 fails' no matter what. It's a unique rule to UMD that isnt the same as other skills
Other skills dont autofail on a natural 1 but UMD does.
Can't take 10 on it either.
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Other skills dont autofail on a natural 1 but UMD does.
Skills don't crit.
Anything that can auto succeed on a nat 20 auto fails on a nat 1.Back onto the original topic, if the intent was for the item not to work at all after failing on a nat 1 then the wording would be more like
If you ever roll a natural 1 while attempting to activate an item and you fail, then the item cannot be activated again for 24 hours.
I actually don't mind the idea of a magical item being usable for 24 after failing on a nat 1.
At the moment when we fail on a nat 1 using a wand, we just pass it to another person for them to use, no biggie.
Sure enough. One little 'and'... natural 1 is not an autofail. thats nice to know
Our gm wont be happy about it though. I can now cast any 9th level spell from a scroll without the possibility of failure and i'm only level 13.
Vincent Takeda, you have a +36 bonus at level 13? Im curious how. You must have spent a lot of resources to do that.
- Gauss
Isil-zha, Im not saying it cannot be done. Im quite certain it can. I am just curious what resources he spent to do it. :)
- Gauss
Lets see... at work so dont have my sheet in front of me... I'll try to put it together in my head
7 from charisma bonus
13 from max ranks for level 13
3 for class skill
6 for skillfocus
4 for magical aptitude
1 for luckstone
1 for the new lucky trait from Ultimate Campaign... fates favored... page 55
(took the bestow luck feat tree, so if i know i need it ahead of time i can boost a single roll per day by 9... I've used it for everything from crafting to a top possible profession: singing score of 57...
But thats only 35... i must be forgetting something...
Well, considering you have spent that much in the way of resources to accomplish this I don't think your GM should begrudge your ability to use level 9 scrolls. However, that does not equate to availability. :)
- Gauss
Yep. We have access to riddleport and magnimar via greater teleport, so even wish scrolls are available 75% of the time based on city economics... But rolling that percentile for each scroll each week means i'm lucky if i get more than a couple... And cheap they aint.
I could get an extra chance if we picked up Korvosa as a teleport point, but meh... i can barely afford the scrolls I do want after putting together my permanent greater demiplane with 2x time with bountiful seasonal shape and structure... Drained the coffers for my own personal paradise when I should have spent it on stat belts and books...
Worth every penny though. That demiplane has already saved us from one total party wipe so far on the first day that I had it. 15 foot waterfall cliff dive into a 25 foot deep pool, a grove of japanese somei yoshino cherry trees on the far side of the pool and some other funky tricks with customizable demiplane borders.... Portable hole and a guyser scroll for the occasional hot tub...
I'm a creature comforts kinda caster.
Talmerian, you do not have to do that when you use Use Magic Device.
UMD is a three step process for scrolls:
1) Decipher (can be done any time). DC = 25+spell level (max 34)
2) Emulate an ability score when you use the scroll. Doing the math the effective DC = 25+spell level (max 34)
3) Use a scroll. DC = 20+caster level (max 40)
There is no Caster Level check when you use Use Magic Device to activate a scroll. Thus, there is no mishap for failing a Caster Level check since you did not have to make one.
- Gauss
Vincent Takeda, in the scroll use rules whenever you use a scroll with a caster level above what you are able to cast you must roll a Caster Level Check and, if that fails, a Wisdom check (nat 1 always fails) to avoid a mishap:
Scroll Mishaps: When a mishap occurs, the spell on the scroll has a reversed or harmful effect. Possible mishaps are given below.
I was recently thinking about that Talmerian. We had been treating scrolls much like wands - if you fail to activate (and don't roll a 1), it just sits there.
And that does make sense actually, but the key is "fail to activate" - what happens if you do hit DC 20 or 21 to emulate a caster level, but that caster level isn't as high as the scroll. Do you fail to activate, or do you activate but need to make the Wisdom check to avoid mishap (which does auto-fail on a 1, unlike the UMD check)?
Wait a minute... that 'a natural roll of 1 always fails no matter the modifiers' isnt during the caster level check but during the wisdom for a mishap check
So lets see. FIrst the decipher. spellcraft check of 29 or use read magic to sort it out.
No problem there.
Caster level check is UMD roll of 18 for 9th level scrolls... Impossible to fail and doesnt autofail. (according to page 490...)
Autofail for the wisdom check on a mishap will never apply because the umd roll for the caster level check doesnt autofail and 1+36 is waaaaay over the required 18.... listed under 'UMD's scroll activation listing...
And thats where things get funky... CRB page 108 shows that UMD to use a scroll is 20 plus caster level which would be 37 instead of the 18 listed on page 490's version of scroll activation... caster level is 17 for 9th level scrolls, which for me is 1+36=37 no failure and doesnt autofail on natural 1s.
Emulating ability scores is UMD roll -15 for the virtual ability score which for me could be a 37-15=22... more than enough to emulate any necessary ability score...
So its interesting how the page 108/109 scroll activation rules listed under UMD are different than the same CRB book page 490 details for how to activate a scroll under the scrolls section...
Has this been errattad from 5th printing?
There is no Emulate a Caster Level check for Use Magic Device. Only the three checks are required, Decipher, Emulate an Ability Score, Activate.
- Gauss