Since it's assumed they won't want to join one with evil members, will they have the same problem with a party with CN or CG alignments? Their code of conduct says " A champion of the Enlightened (Irori) embraces law and goodness as other paladins do, conducting himself with honor and protecting the innocent; he loses all class features if he ever willingly commits an evil act."
They smite evil AND/OR chaos.
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Yes. Just because they can smite chaos doesn't mean they have to.
Don't forget, one of Irori's tenets is that each soul must find their own way to perfection. As long as they aren't screwing with someone else's ability to do that or doing anything else traditionally smite-worthy, they don't really need a smite-punching.
Since he is a fairly transparent representation of Buddha, which means the whole "Middle Path" thing.
Basically, you should generally try to encourage others from performing chaotic acts which are outright disruptive and detrimental to societal order. You should acknowledge, at least logically if not emotionally (because that can be good RP and room for you to improve since you are focused on self perfection), that everyone has their own path. You focus on being Lawful since it provides you with the self discipline needed to maintain and improve your martial arts. Your smite chaos is generally aimed at the creatures that are the worst examples of what chaos can do (aberrations and their rampant mutation that warp their forms and minds, fey and their thoughtless meddling using dangerous magics, demons and their senseless destruction, etc). Just act against chaotic acts that you can clearly see doing damage.
Mechanically, since it never said 'chaotic' creatures in the code of conduct, it should be fine. It would be a nightmare trying to fit that kind of character into a part (denying evil is one thing, but some character CANNOT be lawful at all or lose their class abilities)
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Yes, a champion of Irori may join party with a chaotic person. Or an evil person. Or several evil people. Because there is more to people than 9 arbitrary cosmic categories.
The most Paladinish paladin in the world, might be lifelong friends with a chaotic evil party mate, as long as they share common interests and enjoy eachothers company. Much in the same way normal friendships work. And if they know they share widely different viewpoints on certain touchy issues, as long as they agree to not talk about it, the friendship could last, just like a normal friendship works.
-Nearyn
Thanks for the awesome responses...very informative. It is as I thought.
I don't think Chaotic Evil people have 'friends', just people they can exploit and dominate and those too strong for them to challenge.
I object to this statement! As do James Jacobs btw.
Chaotic Evil, like any alignment, represents a set of morals and ethics that guide the character in question, and provide a framework for what they can justify. That in no way makes it impossible for them to have friends. In fact, considering that there are elements in the world that persecute them for what they are mentally PREPARED to do, rather than what they have actually done, I'd be inclined to say that these people form the strongest friendships of any alignment when they finally DO find someone to call friend.
-Nearyn
"If I want something, I take it. Might is right. The strong rule the weak. Respect me or suffer. Fear me. There is only today, and today I take what I need. Anger brings out the best in me. I am the stronger one."
I don't think Chaotic Evil people have a set of morals and ethics, rather they have a complete absence of either! Being a nasty, ruthless person isn't enough to be Chaotic Evil, it's the alignment of violent criminals (not organised crime, where loyalty may be valued) and psychopaths.
In my opinion the Chaotic Evil people who aren't in prison just haven't been caught yet.
Evil people who function in good or neutral societies would be Lawful or Neutral Evil - Chaotic Evil is beyond the pale.
This is my opinion of course, but I don't except that Pathfinder designers have the last word on what alignment means.
There is nothing inherently wrong with your position, as alignments were specifically written to allow for individual interpretation, but with that said, I'll point out that a person might be of a certain alignment, without being compelled to do everything he can mentally justify.
A creature's general moral and personal attitudes are represented by its alignment
and
Alignment is a tool for developing your character's identity—it is not a straitjacket for restricting your character. Each alignment represents a broad range of personality types or personal philosophies, so two characters of the same alignment can still be quite different from each other. In addition, few people are completely consistent.
In other words Saint Augustin the Pure, paladin of Iomedae and servant of celestial benefactors, could live next to, drink coffee with, talk with, and have regular family dinners with his Chaotic Evil neighbor Lars. As long as Lars is not an evil cleric, outsider or rises above 4th level, Augustin will not be able to detect evil on him, and while Lars might be able to mentally justify alot of nasty stuff, and fantasizes about a racial purge of the nation in the late hours of the night, Lars might also realize that polite society looks down on his viewpoint, and that if he wants to continue his cozy existence, he should keep his veiwpoints to himself.
Alignment only goes so far to describe a person.
-Nearyn
I don't think Chaotic Evil people have a set of morals and ethics, rather they have a complete absence of either! Being a nasty, ruthless person isn't enough to be Chaotic Evil, it's the alignment of violent criminals (not organised crime, where loyalty may be valued) and psychopaths.
Or street gangs, where the loyalty is to your six friends in the gang, and screw the rest.
In my opinion the Chaotic Evil people who aren't in prison just haven't been caught yet.
Quite possibly. So are the Lawful Good people, depending on how the laws are written. One key aspect of the law is deterrence -- making people afraid to break the law because of the consequences. This is something that applies to Chaotic Evil, true Neutral, or Lawful Good -- if the law disagrees with the Paladin's principles, he may still be unwilling to break it because of the consequences.
It could be, depending on how Lawful Stupid the user is. There's a reason that people are contemptuous of the Smite-o-Tron version of the paladin that goes around detecting evil on everything, and then smiting it on the spot. Detecting chaos and smiting appropriate would not be much -- if any -- better.
In a more nuanced world, sometimes it is necessary for good to acknowledge the existence of a lesser evil, possibly even cooperate with it or aid it, to be able to attack a greater one. A more nuanced paladin that recognizes this is generally more fun for the rest of the party, and quite often more fun for the player as well. The same argument holds for the word "chaos" as well.
Yes fair enough, I do agree alignment is pretty clumsy.
I was gonna say 'stupid'.