RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor
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I think it is mostly us old pathfinders who had a massive physical collection prior to joining PFS who are feeling major "d'oh!". Yeah the PDFs are not expensive, but the taste of re-purchasing all your materials for a noteworthy convenience in PFS play is somewhat bitter.
Really, you only need PDFs of the main hardcovers, carrying a few 32 page player companions isn't going to break anyone's back. This is particularly true since few characters need more than a a couple player companions.
If you are new to Pathfinder and PFS, I would certainly suggest that with the current guidelines purchasing your desired books in PDF form is absolutely the way to go. It is both cheaper and considerably easier to manage for PFS events.
I think it is mostly us old pathfinders who had a massive physical collection prior to joining PFS who are feeling major "d'oh!". Yeah the PDFs are not expensive, but the taste of re-purchasing all your materials for a noteworthy convenience in PFS play is somewhat bitter.
One of the reasons that I am stubbornly refusing to drop my subscriptions (despite my domestic boss' best efforts) is that I wanted both, and this way I get to have the book in my hands, and a PDF copy.
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Paz and Matthew,
> (paraphrased) Your idea doesn't help the GM verify individual items/abilities
I agree. I wasn't trying to solve that problem.
However, if I've got 4-6(+) people around the table, I already have enough busy-work getting things set up. Asking each player to pull out every book &/or flip about on their tablet/phone/PC to show me multiple PDFs is not effective. I'd rather say "OK, Fred, you're PFS #98765, right? OK ... (click) yep, you have all the books for a Tengu Magus with a blunderbuss. OK, Jane ..."
Now when Fred tries to glide down a cliff with his Tengu I'm still going to have him show me the page from his paper or e-book, but not until then. As you guys said, it's not my job as GM to know everything, only the core stuff.
The other problem I was trying to solve is virtual tables. If I'm running a game on Roll20 or Google Hangout, do I really need to ask players to buy a webcam and wave the books at me or share the .pdf with the group? Again, if I can take a PFS # and search, I'm done and we can start gaming.
Diego,
> (also paraphrased) I don't want to list all my purchases for a GM (or random person) to search through.
Good point; this should never be a required action, only an option. Anyway I'd definitely suggest that, if this gets any traction, that the search is only by PFS# and provide only the records the player wishes to show (so if you're bringing a core character or just don't like this feature, you could theoretically set all your books to not display, and someone searching on you wouldn't find a thing).
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I agree. I wasn't trying to solve that problem.
So what problem are you trying to solve?
What's the point of doing this:
Asking each player to pull out every book &/or flip about on their tablet/phone/PC to show me multiple PDFs is not effective. I'd rather say "OK, Fred, you're PFS #98765, right? OK ... (click) yep, you have all the books for a Tengu Magus with a blunderbuss. OK, Jane ..."
...when you're also doing this:
Now when Fred tries to glide down a cliff with his Tengu I'm still going to have him show me the page from his paper or e-book, but not until then.
What purpose is your monolithic database of book ownership trying to fulfil?
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What purpose is your monolithic database of book ownership trying to fulfil?To become sentient and engage mankind in a war for survival?
To rule this world from beyond the grave! (/LoPan)
No ... to save me from half an hour per session of having people wave books or PDFs at me before I can even read the introductory paragraph.
Maybe Fred the Tengu doesn't do any gliding this adventure and I don't need to see his copy of the Advanced Race Guide this day. This is not Advanced Squad Leader; I am not doing this for rollplaying or ruleplaying but roleplaying.
There's just an inverse correlation between the annoyance factor of a mandate and the likelihood that people will actually DO it. Balanced against the time and tedium of paper-checking are:
- Positive value (or perceived value) of the intended behavior (in this case, that GMs and players will know that not only their table but others receiving similar credit are run fairly); and
- Negative consequences/punishment of not doing the intended behavior (whatever happens to players, GMs, coordinators, and the various Venture-leaders if failing to follow the process causes a problem)
A rule that people only follow when the boss is looking, or not at all, isn't a rule at all (consider speeding laws). I write rules for people to follow all the time; and even though the people are being *paid* to follow them, sometimes they don't. They aren't being evil, malicious, spiteful or deliberately fraudulent; they're just making value judgments about their other priorities vs. the ones I'm setting (again, we do this all the time, weighing our time and enjoyment of driving vs. the risk of a ticket).
Anyway it's not a big monolithic anything, nor even a major project. Paizo already has a record of everything I've bought from them; I know this because I can download a new copy any time I like. Just tie the two together and let me optionally allow a GM to see it as a timesaver.
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I never ask for sources, I've got access to the PRD on my iPad. Boom, we're done, who's next on initiative.
The rest of these Internet Badasses can wave their rules as written authority boners at you all they want, I'm here to have fun and ensure the table has fun and keeps moving.
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I never ask for sources, I've got access to the PRD on my iPad. Boom, we're done, who's next on initiative.
The rest of these Internet Badasses can wave their rules as written authority boners at you all they want, I'm here to have fun and ensure the table has fun and keeps moving.
As are we all ... however, what do you do when you don't have internet access and cannot access the PRD?
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TriOMega beat me to it.
Really, I mean who cares. I pay Paizo to play their game. I invest in them. It isn't my job to make sure others are. If someone so desperately needs to be an authority in something that they're demanding to see all resources before anyone uses them in the game, maybe therapy would be a better use of their gaming time.
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While I don't agree with everything Peej says, I 100% agree that I am there to have fun and kick things along.
My players are getting used to having very little rulebooks around when I gm, there's a lappy available open at the PRD and ready to go, if we REALLY need to find out something we can. Most players have their spells all printed from perrams, and the Ogresheet/bluecanary excel for their character with most pertinent data on it.
It's more fun when its a gaming group and not a book reading club.
Just me, just how I like it, but like Peej I play to have fun - not play Audit The Gathering
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Really, I mean who cares. I pay Paizo to play their game. I invest in them. It isn't my job to make sure others are. If someone so desperately needs to be an authority in something that they're demanding to see all resources before anyone uses them in the game, maybe therapy would be a better use of their gaming time.
As a GM, I don't ask to see resources pre-emptively. Generally speaking, I have other things with which I want to spend my time while GMing.
But, if a player at my table pulls out a feat, a spell, a class ability, or (most problematically) some trick which uses the interaction of a couple of rules items with which I'm unfamiliar, and which seems to be "too good to be true", I'd really like to be able to see the actual documentation of that, so I can make a fair adjudication of how it works. Paraphrased (or possibly inaccurate) documentation from a third-party source doesn't cut it. Having to count on a good internet connection (so the player can access the official PRD) doesn't cut it.
As a GM, that's the purpose that this rule serves for me. If this rule is going to be changed (and, please trust me, I absolutely do understand, and sympathize with, the very real complaints and concerns that are being aired here), I really hope that the change still ensures that the player will still have to be able to provide that documentation, if the GM needs it, in order to understand what the player's character is doing.
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Really, I mean who cares. I pay Paizo to play their game. I invest in them. It isn't my job to make sure others are. If someone so desperately needs to be an authority in something that they're demanding to see all resources before anyone uses them in the game, maybe therapy would be a better use of their gaming time.As a GM, I don't ask to see resources pre-emptively. Generally speaking, I have other things with which I want to spend my time while GMing.
But, if a player at my table pulls out a feat, a spell, a class ability, or (most problematically) some trick which uses the interaction of a couple of rules items with which I'm unfamiliar, and which seems to be "too good to be true", I'd really like to be able to see the actual documentation of that, so I can make a fair adjudication of how it works. Paraphrased (or possibly inaccurate) documentation from a third-party source doesn't cut it. Having to count on a good internet connection (so the player can access the official PRD) doesn't cut it.
As a GM, that's the purpose that this rule serves for me. If this rule is going to be changed (and, please trust me, I absolutely do understand, and sympathize with, the very real complaints and concerns that are being aired here), I really hope that the change still ensures that the player will still have to be able to provide that documentation, if the GM needs it, in order to understand what the player's character is doing.
Like Mike here, I don't usually preemptively ask to see documentation.
I might ask, in a "ducks in a row" manner, that the player has the boon for their non-standard race or class choice. Mainly because, while I have some of those boons myself, I want to make sure that I understand the boon.
However, when a player comes up with something I have never seen before, or has some numbers that seem a bit odd to me, I would ask to see how they come up with the number, or see the rules for the abiility, so I can understand it in the future.
I am working on making my collection of printed out material for all my PCs more comprehensive, so that I can just pull out the watermarked page(s) for item X on PC Y if I need to, I also have most of my books in PDF on my tablet. Some of my PCs probably only need a few pieces printed, others, from the get-go, will need more.
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Ultimately, Paizo could solve all their problems by sending a single, one use code with all of their books that let the purchasers get the pdf version of the books the bought for free and they'd end about 90% of their complaints.
Why they don't do it? Who knows, but ultimately it's not my problem one way or the other, my characters are legal and when I GM as long as no one seems to be doing anything fishy, I'm not bothering to check on the rule books or their sheets unless I think it's cool and want to coop it for one of my characters lol .
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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While I don't agree with everything Peej says, I 100% agree that I am there to have fun and kick things along.
My players are getting used to having very little rulebooks around when I gm, there's a lappy available open at the PRD and ready to go, if we REALLY need to find out something we can. Most players have their spells all printed from perrams, and the Ogresheet/bluecanary excel for their character with most pertinent data on it.
It's more fun when its a gaming group and not a book reading club.
Just me, just how I like it, but like Peej I play to have fun - not play Audit The Gathering
And that's fine. But that isn't organized play - that's a lot closer to what you'd expect to find in an easy-going home game.
Participating in PFS means giving up some of those freedoms; there are "house rules" set by campaign management, and if you want to play in their sandbox you have to agree to play by their rules.
Arguing that a game run by your rules is more fun for the players is irrelevant; PFS isn't your game, it's Paizo's (and, by extension, Mike Brock and John Compton's: those are the guys who set the rules).
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Ultimately, Paizo could solve all their problems by sending a single, one use code with all of their books that let the purchasers get the pdf version of the books the bought for free and they'd end about 90% of their complaints.
Why they don't do it?
They don't have a way to avoid shoplifting (in this case browsing the book, copying the code, and redeeming it without purchase) other than shrink-wrapping every book. That adds extra cost for the code and wrapping and negates one of the biggest draw of the FLGS, being able to browse the book before you buy it.
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And that's fine. But that isn't organized play - that's a lot closer to what you'd expect to find in an easy-going home game.
So who is suggesting any 'house rules'? Who is suggesting that there is any deviation from the RAW that we find covered in the mountain of resources? Somehow NOT clogging up your space with a mountain of books (because when you have 6-7 copies of the same sets of books it is a mountain) is not 'organised play'?
Wow - I thought 'organised play' was play using a set of codified rules, not running "Bobs Used RPG bookstore".
I reject that not wanting a bajillion books and ipads at the table is somehow not 'organised play'.
Eyeballing the sheets is fine, make sure they have their chronicles is fine, carding people at the door for proof of purchase reminds me more of my former job as a nightclub bouncer...
"Say buddy, can I see some ID and a proof of purchase? Can't let you game today in those shoes".
It seems that the need to have the books to hand has very little to do with actual gameplay, very few people seem to talk about using them for reference, and if that was the purpose then one edition of each would be sufficient - indeed the only real purpose of lugging around the library seems to be centered on proof of possession, which has little to do with the actual 'gaming' aspect than satisfying part of the PFS rules.
Not utility, not ease of play, simply compliance.
Anyhow I will leave you to it, as we probably have very different expectations of what a game should look like.
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Diego,> (also paraphrased) I don't want to list all my purchases for a GM (or random person) to search through.
Good point; this should never be a required action, only an option. Anyway I'd definitely suggest that, if this gets any traction, that the search is only by PFS# and provide only the records the player wishes to show (so if you're bringing a core character or just don't like this feature, you could theoretically set all your books to not display, and someone searching on you wouldn't find a thing).
My gaming club had some problem with Google search engine displaying sections of the content of the closed section of the forum if typed the right words while doing your research.
I suppose that the developers of Paizo website will have a more experience with their website than the developer of club (he is a programmer, but he is not working on a proprietary forum), but, AFAIK, if you open a closed section of the site to a larger audience security become weaker.
My purchase page allow the download of the products. You would really like to find PDF with your watermark distributed around the world because there was a tiny crack in the security or because a GM was lax in his security?
AFAIK, something open to which I can limit the access is way weaker than something that is closed to anyone that hasn't very specific and limited rights
Maybe Fred the Tengu doesn't do any gliding this adventure and I don't need to see his copy of the Advanced Race Guide this day. This is not Advanced Squad Leader; I am not doing this for rollplaying or ruleplaying but roleplaying.There's just an inverse correlation between the annoyance factor of a mandate and the likelihood that people will actually DO it. Balanced against the time and tedium of paper-checking are:
- Positive value (or perceived value) of the intended behavior (in this case, that GMs and players will know that not only their table but others receiving similar credit are run fairly); and
- Negative consequences/punishment of not doing the intended behavior (whatever happens to players, GMs, coordinators, and the various Venture-leaders if failing to follow the process causes a problem)
A rule that people only follow when the boss is looking, or not at all, isn't a rule at all (consider speeding laws). I write rules for people to follow all the time; and even though the people are being *paid* to follow them, sometimes they don't. They aren't being evil, malicious, spiteful or deliberately fraudulent; they're just making value judgments about their other priorities vs. the ones I'm setting (again, we do this all the time, weighing our time and enjoyment of driving vs. the risk of a ticket).
Anyway it's not a big monolithic anything, nor even a major project. Paizo already has a record of everything I've bought from them; I know this because I can download a new copy any time I like. Just tie the two together and let me optionally allow a GM to see it as a timesaver.
Let's say this is implemented. How many players would not bring the book and say "I have purchased it, the rule work such and such"? I bet they will be a good number.
I have a good number of years of gaming on my back and I still make errors (some of them because the years of gaming through different version of the game). Having a reference at hand is necessary.So Fred the Tengu need to glide down a cliff but he hasn't brought the book or PDF with him and the GM hasn't access to the relevant rules. What happen?
Fred the Tengu dies because he can't glide and the player get pissed off?
Fred the Tengu glide with the player and GM getting to an agreement on how it work?
Fred the Tengu fly away because the GM has no knowledge of how a Tengu work?
The GM should run around trying to find someone with the rules because Fred the Tengu want to glide away?
As I see it, we are trading a potential annoyance at the start of the game for a even worse potential annoyance during the game.
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to save me from half an hour per session of having people wave books or PDFs at me before I can even read the introductory paragraph.
Why are they/you doing this? This has never happened at any PFS session I've ever seen or been involved in.
If the player wants to use an option and you're not familiar with it, ask to see the rule in a permitted resource. Show me a page that's verifiably from a Paizo book, and everything is good.
What does your database do? I don't care if they've bought the PDF, bought the book from a FLGS, won it in a knife fight, received it as a gift from their 120-year old grandmother etc. Either they have it at the table, or they don't.
Anyway it's not a big monolithic anything, nor even a major project. Paizo already has a record of everything I've bought from them; I know this because I can download a new copy any time I like. Just tie the two together and let me optionally allow a GM to see it as a timesaver.
This is the easy part. All the books received from other sources is the hard part - see discussions passim on licence keys in books etc.
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Arguing that a game run by your rules is more fun for the players is irrelevant; PFS isn't your game, it's Paizo's (and, by extension, Mike Brock and John Compton's: those are the guys who set the rules).
What house rule am I running other than "I don't have time to police if you have properly purchased the item?"
I have a ton of the PDFS myself on my own iPad, I have the PRD all I need to know as the GM is if the option is legal (surprise I also have a copy of the Additional Resources on my iPad too) and how it works. I'm not policing their purchasing and if Brock and John say I can't GM anymore great, I also don't have to buy the scenarios or run, I can just go back to playing all the time, with my completely legal characters.
And this argument is starting to take the same ridiculousness as the guy who says you can't be wearing your Paizo t-shirt under your flannel for your reroll, so I'm out.
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What house rule am I running other than "I don't have time to police if you have properly purchased the item?"
I have a ton of the PDFS myself on my own iPad, I have the PRD all I need to know as the GM is if the option is legal (surprise I also have a copy of the Additional Resources on my iPad too) and how it works. I'm not policing their purchasing and if Brock and John say I can't GM anymore great, I also don't have to buy the scenarios or run, I can just go back to playing all the time, with my completely legal characters.
The rule isn't "have you properly purchased the item", as Paizo has indicated that they will handle anything related to property rights.
The rule is that the players have to have the resource information for their characters at hand (currently there are 3 acceptable formats).
One of the reasons is for the player to be able to hand the GM the resource, opened at the correct place, so that the GM can look at it and make a decision. For me, one of the reasons for that to happen is to speed up play, so that time is not lost looking up a rule (especially if the player is hazy about where the feat/ability/spell/etc.. is found).
I don't make players stack their books or electronic devices on the table at the start of the game to verify if they have the resources with them. Quite the opposite, I don't want the table to be any more cluttered than it already is.
Example: The other day an Alchemist threw two vials of alchemist fire, aiming for the floor rather than an opponent and told me that they all were taking 5 points of splash damage, save for 2 points, per vial. Not only was it the first day that I saw an alchemist use alchemist fire and acid vials - at the time, I was unaware of their class ability that adds in their inteligence modifier to all splash damage, not just to their bombs.
I asked the player for the reference, and while they got it out, I dealt with the next PC in the initiative line (as their attacks were on a different set of enemies and would not be affected by alchemist's attack). The Alchemist provided me with the reference after the other PC went, I read it, said "cool", rolled the saves and moved on.
I did not have to spend time loading the APG, finding the right page and entry, to then be able to make a decision. Even if, like you, I have all the PDFs on my laptop and often carry the main RPG books with me.
This thread, like a few other threads, is exploring options for those who have legitemate reasons for not wanting to carry around a significant weight in books with them, has unfortunately gotten heated and some of the entries reflect that.
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TriOMega beat me to it.
Really, I mean who cares. I pay Paizo to play their game. I invest in them. It isn't my job to make sure others are. If someone so desperately needs to be an authority in something that they're demanding to see all resources before anyone uses them in the game, maybe therapy would be a better use of their gaming time.
When you are playing a home game, sure. When you are serving as a GM of a Society game, however, it is a different prospect. As a shared-world game, Society play requires that all play by the same rules and are held to the same standard. And while there are (and really, should be) some minor variances among tables, the rules-side of the game should be nearly identical for everyone.
It's not about someone "..need[ing] to be an authority in something..."; it's about the GM making sure he or she meets her responsibility to the shared-world campaign.
Mark
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@wererat - It's easy to do without a database and doesn't need to take 30 minutes. Just do what I do... spot check. I always limit myself to 10 minutes of checking sheets. I usually pick on things I do not recognize so that I learn something new as I have the player pull their book out and show me. Since players know that I spot check (and they never know what I'm going to pick on), players generally make sure they own and bring the books to the characters they build.
They also know they need to have the information ready when I ask (bookmarked or, in the case of PDFs, they can print the watermarked pages that impact their character). My players become adept at being able to show me stuff quickly.
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I'll also just point out that one may be doing their players a disservice by not at least telling them they should have the books. A lot of the emotion that's coming out of some of the recent threads is based on situations like, "I've been playing for three years, and when I went to a con the GM told me I couldn't play my favourite character because I didn't have the APG. What's that about?!"
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Ultimately, Paizo could solve all their problems by sending a single, one use code with all of their books that let the purchasers get the pdf version of the books the bought for free and they'd end about 90% of their complaints.
Why they don't do it? Who knows, but ultimately it's not my problem one way or the other, my characters are legal and when I GM as long as no one seems to be doing anything fishy, I'm not bothering to check on the rule books or their sheets unless I think it's cool and want to coop it for one of my characters lol .
I see two reasons why Paizo doesn't do it:
1) Cost. The investment in implementing and maintaining such a system (including warding off hackers, code generators, etc.), while not necessarily staggering, is non-trivial. But I think the bigger problem is...
2) Backwards compatibility. While such a system could theoretically solve the problem from this point on, it doesn't address all the hard copies out there without IDs. And in theory most of this is geared towards allowing those who already have hard copies to get an allowance for photocopies or electronic access.
That's why I think any system to solve this can't revolve around specific copies of books and will likely require some kind of GM sign-off. I have some thought, but I'm going to start a new thread for it.
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The rule isn't "have you properly purchased the item", as Paizo has indicated that they will handle anything related to property rights.The rule is that the players have to have the resource information for their characters at hand (currently there are 3 acceptable formats).
Except it clearly isn't. If it were then a scanned page of a book would be an "acceptable format".
This rule is attempting to do two things:
1) ensure players have the reference for all abilities in play at hand - to increase smooth running of game
2) to ensure books have been purchased
There are 3 acceptable formats that have been determined by PFS management - Physical book, electronic copy of a watermarked PDF, printed page from a watermarked PDF.
The current threads on the subject are trying to get PFS management to expand on what is acceptable for PFS play.
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Ultimately, Paizo could solve all their problems by sending a single, one use code with all of their books that let the purchasers get the pdf version of the books the bought for free and they'd end about 90% of their complaints.
Don't they do something like this already? I thought subscribers get free .pdfs of the books they get through their subscription.
Mark
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That will never happen. Paizo's business model relies upon subscribers. They already know before they order a batch of books that they have sold X copies and will be receiving Y revenue. This is the bread and butter of Paizo. The benefit to the consumer is that if you become a subscriber you get the pdf for free. If you want a free pdf with your book then become a subscriber.
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One of the reasons is for the player to be able to hand the GM the resource, opened at the correct place, so that the GM can look at it and make a decision. For me, one of the reasons for that to happen is to speed up play, so that time is not lost looking up a rule (especially if the player is hazy about where the feat/ability/spell/etc.. is found).
A side issue I have seen, is that some people have the PDFs on their laptop - the same one that their character is on. Such a device is not going to be passed to the GM, so the GM gets up and walks over to read.
I'd sure like a requirement for the player not only to have the resource but be in a format that the GM could see without getting up and going over
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This thread has taken on a life without me, which is cool, i do however strongly agree that the above would be a good solution.Ultimately, Paizo could solve all their problems by sending a single, one use code with all of their books that let the purchasers get the pdf version of the books the bought for free and they'd end about 90% of their complaints.
Why they don't do it? Who knows, but ultimately it's not my problem one way or the other, my characters are legal and when I GM as long as no one seems to be doing anything fishy, I'm not bothering to check on the rule books or their sheets unless I think it's cool and want to coop it for one of my characters lol .
This has been suggested in numerous places and has been declined (from a practical perspective because no one has suggested a good implementation of it which would:
1) Guarantee that it's impossible for someone to flip open the book in the store, jot down the code, and get the PDF for free without the store staff having to monitor the bookshelves, and2) Not necessitate the shrink-wrapping of books, which would not allow browsing the book in the store, one of the major advantages left to shopping in a FLGS, and
3) Not require the FLGS staff to take on extra work, such as handing out a card with said number on it from behind the register when a purchase is made.
If you can solve this dilemma, please make suggestions - I believe these concerns are the major blockades to this idea. (The "scratch-n-reveal" suggestion has already been made and discounted, since it doesn't necessarily solve issue #1.)
There are other, economic reasons that have been cited for not pursuing this, but start with the practical before we get to the economical.
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This rule is attempting to do two things:
1) ensure players have the reference for all abilities in play at hand - to increase smooth running of game
2) to ensure books have been purchased
Yes! There are really two separate issues.
- Having references at hand. This entirely makes sense: GMs need rules to adjudicate. Just enforce non-internet/PRD based access from a legal rules source. Rules are always available for the player and fully legal.
- Enforcing book ownership. Yes, we all want Paizo to thrive; but volunteer PFS GMs are not meant to be an 'enforcement arm' for the Paizo purchasing system. GMs are meant to run a fair and fun PFS scenario, and not to make sure players have paid their bills.
So! Don't make volunteer PFS GMs tax collectors and book auditors. They have enough to do keeping the game fair. Let the culture of PFS encourage people to do the right thing.
Photocopies of hardbacks accomplish this goal, and also supports PFS players who a) prefer hardbacks b) prefer buying from their FLGS, who can't sell PDFs.
Conclusion. Having references at hand should be the goal here, with the informal proviso of 'you must own the resources you use'. And photocopies of the hardbacks you own is a perfectly balanced approach.
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In a way, Nik, PFS GMs are kinda an unofficial arm. But, really, it isn't much different in other organized play systems. If I'm a store owner or game enthusiast organizing a Magic The Gathering tourney, I'm only going to accept people at the table who are buying official booster sets. I'm not going to allow people to make copies of cards and bring them. If I'm running a Street Fighter touney, I'm probably not going to allow someone to use a RAM cart with an emulated version that they could tweak. Etc., etc.
I'm not the copyright police, but I am going to insist that official sources and documents are used at my organized play games just like I would in a Magic the Gathering organized dealie.
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It is? Can you direct me to where I can download it please?As are we all ... however, what do you do when you don't have internet access and cannot access the PRD?It's an offline app.
go to your google play store or App store for the iPad and type in the search function:
PFRPG RD
You can purchase the lite version for free, or the full version for $2.99. Keep in mind, that if you want the last 3 hardcover books, there is a link to download that copy within the description of the ap. For whatever reason the guy who built the ap is having trouble getting the whole thing to download from the google store.
It is a fantastic, searchable app, that does not require an internet connection.
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It is. You still need the appropriate resources for GM reference and for proof of play.
THe PFRPG RD pulls the PRD directly from Paizo's website and doesn't modify anything.
It has a fantastic search function.
I use it to both GM and play for referencing things quickly.
However, if we need to refer to an actual legal source, I also have all those PDFs on my Tablet's mini SD card and in my Drop Box.
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This rule is attempting to do two things:
1) ensure players have the reference for all abilities in play at hand - to increase smooth running of game
2) to ensure books have been purchasedYes! There are really two separate issues.
- Having references at hand. This entirely makes sense: GMs need rules to adjudicate. Just enforce non-internet/PRD based access from a legal rules source. Rules are always available for the player and fully legal.
- Enforcing book ownership. Yes, we all want Paizo to thrive; but volunteer PFS GMs are not meant to be an 'enforcement arm' for the Paizo purchasing system. GMs are meant to run a fair and fun PFS scenario, and not to make sure players have paid their bills.
So! Don't make volunteer PFS GMs tax collectors and book auditors. They have enough to do keeping the game fair. Let the culture of PFS encourage people to do the right thing.
Photocopies of hardbacks accomplish this goal, and also supports PFS players who a) prefer hardbacks b) prefer buying from their FLGS, who can't sell PDFs.
Conclusion. Having references at hand should be the goal here, with the informal proviso of 'you must own the resources you use'. And photocopies of the hardbacks you own is a perfectly balanced approach.
+1
Your GM's are your ambassadors of the game. If they become enforcers, then it will reflect upon OP as a whole.
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Hmmm...I'm not sure I agree with that, Rorrik.
I mean, I don't like the word "enforcers." It has negative connotations. Ambassadors is certainly a more cushy, PC term. Terms aside though, we, as GMs, perform tasks that could fall under both headings.
Yes, we are welcoming people who encourage others to play the game by spreading comradeship and the such. Ambassadors, sure.
But, we also ensure a fair environment at the table, by teach and insuring everyone is following the rules to the best of our abilities. In a way, we are 'enforcers.' The term "GameMaster" comes from the angle, after all. We are, in essence, referees of sorts.
In organized play, we should insure that all of the rules of organized play are being followed (again, to the best of our abilities, within reason). If we begin ignoring, rather than 'enforcing' certain rules we personally do not agree with, then instead of organized play, we end up with 'disorganized' play.
The rule that we only accept 'official' sources for character support (watermarked PDFs, physical books), may be to keep things fair, or for copyright issues, or whatever. We can guess all day. I'd rather focus on the fact that, hey, it's a rule. We don't have to all agree on its purpose, or whether we like it, but as GMs, we do need to take steps to enforce it to some degree as we do any other rule in the organized play system. If we don't like these rules, there are plenty of ways to enjoy Pathfinder outside of the more rigid structuring that PFS brings to the table, yah?
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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It is. You still need the appropriate resources for GM reference and for proof of play.
THe PFRPG RD pulls the PRD directly from Paizo's website and doesn't modify anything.
It has a fantastic search function.
I use it to both GM and play for referencing things quickly.
However, if we need to refer to an actual legal source, I also have all those PDFs on my Tablet's mini SD card and in my Drop Box.
*nods* The app I have has a different interface. I just wanted to make sure readers were clear it's not a Paizo product (like icrit and ifumble)
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A side issue I have seen, is that some people have the PDFs on their laptop - the same one that their character is on. Such a device is not going to be passed to the GM, so the GM gets up and walks over to read.
I'd sure like a requirement for the player not only to have the resource but be in a format that the GM could see without getting up and going over
Indeed. Especially since space at many events is tight, and some participants have health/mobility issues.
I don't want to be stepping on people's bags, or leaning on people at the best of times, just to look at your screen. If the person I'm having to lean over is wheelchair-bound or on crutches, even less so.|
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It is. You still need the appropriate resources for GM reference and for proof of play.
THe PFRPG RD pulls the PRD directly from Paizo's website and doesn't modify anything.
So yeah, if allowing the PRD to be legal for PFS I imagine Paizo would also need to make this offline app legal (which I can see them not willing to do).
Out of interest, as it works offline, at what point does it pull the data directly from the PRD - is it part of the development process (i.e. will there be a lag between the PRD being updated and a new release coming out)? Or does it update when an internet connection is available?
A player must have a physical copy of the Additional Resource in question, a name-watermarked Paizo PDF of the book, or a printout of the relevant pages from a name-watermarked PDF, as well as provide access electronically or a physical copy of the current version of the Additional Resources list, as advised in the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play.
A print out is not a photocopy. It is exactly what it advises. It is a print out from a watermarked PDF that, when printed, shows the name of the person (and their email) on the top or bottom of the page. A photocopy of a physical book that does not show a watermark does not fulfill the requirement. This includes a photocopy of a book you borrowed from a friend, checked out of a library, or any other copy you obtained and photocopied or scanned pages from.
If a family member, significant other, or other members of the same household living together (such as college room mates) are playing at the same table, they may share the same resources instead of having duplicates of the same resource at the same table. If it is a group of friends that always plays together at the same table, as long as there is at least one sourcebook that covers each rule for every character at the table, it For example, if they all play Chelaxian characters and utilize rules from the Cheliax book, and they are all playing at the same table, then they only need one Cheliax book at the table, and that book can be either physical or an electronic, watermarked copy. However, if they are playing at different tables, each person at a different table will need a physical copy, a PDF copy, or a printed watermarked copy of the relevant pages with them, that covers anything they choose to utilize in the build of their character.
One thing that was pointed out to me (in bold), that might mitigate some peoples annoyance. Thus if you play a regular game with friends, you only need 1 copy of everything that everyone uses - this can also help GM's who have to bring a ton of stuff for a game anyway.