The Magic chapter teaches us that:
Divine Focus (DF): A divine focus component is an item of spiritual significance. The divine focus for a cleric or a paladin is a holy symbol appropriate to the character's faith. The divine focus for a druid or a ranger is a sprig of holly, or some other sacred plant.
If the Components line includes F/DF or M/DF, the arcane version of the spell has a focus component or a material component (the abbreviation before the slash) and the divine version has a divine focus component (the abbreviation after the slash).
An example of this M/DF notation can be seen in the spell Greater Magic Weapon, where it appears that a cleric may present his holy symbol, in place of using up some powdered lime and carbon.
The Cursed Earth spell also have the M and DF notation in its listed components, but instead lists them as follows:
Components V, S, M(Powdered Onyx 10.000 gp), DF
There is no slash here, which I suppose means that the cleric has to present a divine focus AND use material components.
How do you go about presenting your holy symbol, while handling, a bag full of onyx dust, while also weaving somatic components? All in the span of 3 seconds. Are both your hands required to be free in order to cast this spell? Do you have to physically manipulate your material component and divine focus, or is it enough that they are merely there? Am I reading it wrong?
Input appreciated
-Nearyn
The Cursed Earth spell also have the M and DF notation in its listed components, but instead lists them as follows:Components V, S, M(Powdered Onyx 10.000 gp), DFThere is no slash here, which I suppose means that the cleric has to present a divine focus AND use material components.
How do you go about presenting your holy symbol, while handling, a bag full of onyx dust, while also weaving somatic components? All in the span of 3 seconds.
This specific spell has a ten minute casting time, so it's more of a traditional ritual ("The Power of Sarenrae compels you!") than a battle spell. I suspect it involves spreading the dust, waving your holy symbol around, lots of chanting,.... think of a traditional High Church mass.
In general, you only need one hand free to manipulate all the components of a spell. If this were a combat spell, it might be as simple as "touch your focus and then throw the dust at the target."
Yeah, on second thought, Cursed Earth was a horrible example :D
But your reading of it works for me.
-Nearyn
I just noticed that Magic Weapon according to the first link is listed as having a Divine Focus and no Material Component, but what about for arcane casters? This isn't something I've paid attention to before really.
I just noticed that Magic Weapon according to the first link is listed as having a Divine Focus and no Material Component, but what about for arcane casters? This isn't something I've paid attention to before really.
I think it's a typo, and not really an important one. You could house-rule it either way -- either it takes a really cheap material component (powdered lime or something) or it has no material component for arcane casters. I would go for the second for flavor reasons, 'cause enchanting a weapon with but a word seems very wizard-y to me.
If it has a DF but no Material Component then arcane casters are screwed. (KIDDING!) Seriously though, they just ignore the DF and cast it normally.
- Gauss
If it has a DF but no Material Component then arcane casters are screwed. (KIDDING!) Seriously though, they just ignore the DF and cast it normally.
- Gauss
I mean thats how I would run it, or just assume there is a material component that has less than 1gp value (so they would have it in component pouches) but I just saw it and it made me wonder if it was simply an error of ommision.
Well, I guess clealry it ahs to be because wizards aren't going to be carrying a divine focus.
I guess I saw it and it just made me stop for a second and say, "Hey, that can't be right!"
I don't think you have to handle either the focus or the spell component pouch. You just need to have them on your person.
It is correct. Think of it this way:
You have a spell with a Verbal and Somatic component. Wizards cast it like that.
Now, a Cleric gets a hold of this spell but he is a Divine caster and all Divine spells require a Divine Focus...so add DF to the list of components.
Here are the various options for a spell that is both Arcane and Divine and requires Verbal and Somatic components but where Material is a variable:
V, S, DF (Arcane casters ignore the DF)
V, S, M/DF (Divine casters ignore the M)
V, S, M, DF (Arcane casters ignore the DF, Divine casters must still supply the M)
- Gauss
I don't think you have to handle either the focus or the spell component pouch. You just need to have them on your person.
No, "To cast a spell, you must be able to speak (if the spell has a verbal component), gesture (if it has a somatic component), and manipulate the material components or focus (if any)."
You have to be able to handle both the focus and the component(s). (It's of course possible to cast a spell without handling the spell component pouch just as it's possible to drink a Coke without touching the bottle, if you can set up a sufficiently contrived situation -- or just have a helper pour your drink/components into a separate glass for you.)
It is correct. Think of it this way:
You have a spell with a Verbal and Somatic component. Wizards cast it like that.Now, a Cleric gets a hold of this spell but he is a Divine caster and all Divine spells require a Divine Focus...so add DF to the list of components.
Here are the various options for a spell that is both Arcane and Divine and requires Verbal and Somatic components but where Material is a variable:
V, S, DF (Arcane casters ignore the DF)
V, S, M/DF (Divine casters ignore the M)
V, S, M, DF (Arcane casters ignore the DF, Divine casters must still supply the M)- Gauss
Are there any other spells that are "V, S, DF"? A quick pass through the list didn't yield any for me.
In particular, not all divine spells require a divine focus. Detect Magic, for example, is purely V, S.
I don't think you have to handle either the focus or the spell component pouch. You just need to have them on your person.No, "To cast a spell, you must be able to speak (if the spell has a verbal component), gesture (if it has a somatic component), and manipulate the material components or focus (if any)."
You have to be able to handle both the focus and the component(s). (It's of course possible to cast a spell without handling the spell component pouch just as it's possible to drink a Coke without touching the bottle, if you can set up a sufficiently contrived situation -- or just have a helper pour your drink/components into a separate glass for you.)
It says you must BE ABLE to manipulate the components or focus. It doesn't say you must actually do so. So long as they're where you could reach them, they're on your person, etc etc, I'd say it's all good.
It says you must BE ABLE to manipulate the components or focus.
It uses the same wording for speaking verbal components. Are you suggesting that I can cast any spell I like silently simply by choosing not to speak? Congratulations, free Silent Spell for everyone without the need of a feat!
You need to be able to speak the verbal components because the spell doesn't work if you don't speak them.
Similarly, you need to be able to handle the material components because the spell doesn't work if you don't.
Orfamay Quest,
There are many spells that are V, S, DF but most are divine only. There are some that are used by an arcane class.
Here is a quick list of spells that are V, S, DF and are both Arcane and Divine. (Note: CRB list does not include any spells that were made arcane after CRB was printed.)
CRB: Blight, Calm Emotions, Delay Poison, Discern Location, Dismissal, Magic Weapon, Protection from Energy, Repel Vermin, Resist Energy
APG: Nature's Exile, Stone Call, Winds of Vengance, World Wave, Unravel Destiny
As for Detect Magic not needing a Divine Focus, that would be an exception rather than the rule. :)
- Gauss
Orfamay Quest,
There are many spells that are V, S, DF but most are divine only. There are some that are used by an arcane class.
Here is a quick list of spells that are V, S, DF and are both Arcane and Divine. (Note: CRB list does not include any spells that were made arcane after CRB was printed.)
CRB: Blight, Calm Emotions, Delay Poison, Discern Location, Dismissal, Magic Weapon, Protection from Energy, Repel Vermin, Resist EnergyAPG: Nature's Exile, Stone Call, Winds of Vengance, World Wave, Unravel Destiny
Thanks!
As for Detect Magic not needing a Divine Focus, that would be an exception rather than the rule. :)
Actually, I think I found more "V, S" spells that clerics could cast than you found "V,S, DF" spells that wizards could. Which just means that the designers don't really have any hard/fast rules about what components are necessary.
Hmm, you appear to be right. :)
- Gauss