Alright I'm a level 11 cleric and was wandering if it would be a good idea to multi class to a rouge.
Why?
I didn't know if that would be a good class to multi class to because my groups GM has given us permission to multi class and we have to stick with the normal classes and not the advanced.
I suppose it depends on your concept. Just because you are allowed it doesn't mean is a good idea.
As a cleric you will lose your spellcasting, are you ok with that?
Also, what are you expecting to get from those rogue levels? Skills? Evasion? A weakened sneak attack progression? Trapfinding ability?
With more information we can give better advice.
I would need more info about your character's build but in general the answer is no.
If you're not a good cleric and the party 'trusts' you to put your hands on them, it might be an easy way to get some extra cash :p you should look into the oracle rogue archetype and the alchemist rogue archetype if you think straight rogue is bland.
I'm looking for extra skills and with my body build I'm a medium sized full elf. Another reason I asked is because I have the magic to fight far away and the equipment to fight up close and personal.
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I don't think anyone who spells "rogue" "rouge" should be allowed to multiclass into the class. :-)
Well if you're looking for extra skills, consider a level of Ranger instead. You'll get a +1 to attack, you'll get better saves, and you'll get proficiency in a whole bunch of weapons. One level of Rogue isn't going to do much for you besides trapfinding (which is only semi-useful), and +1d6 sneak attack, which is really not all that good. Personally, my favorite one level multiclass with a Cleric is a level of fighter, for heavy armor, martial weapons, a point of base attack, and an extra feat.
In any case, I wouldn't recommend going with more than one level into another class. With full-caster class like Cleric, you just give up too much if you go any deeper.
It entirely depends on your character concept, which is why people are asking for more information. "Cleric who casts spells and is in melee a lot" is not a concept, it's a description of a character class. A concept is "I am the servant of the god of redemption who spends a lot of time healing people," or "I am the servant of the god of trickery and darkness and I sneak about collecting secrets for my Lord," or "I am a mighty crusader who backs my mace swings with spells gifted from the heavens." And so on.
Is your cleric more combat focused or melee focused? Who does your cleric serve? What missions do you do, if any, for your church?
You say you want extra skills -- which skills? Why? Are there skills that are not being covered by other party members? Which ones? Why are is your character the best person to learn them? Has your character been practicing at these skills?
What does being an elf have to do with being a rogue? Is there something about your elf character that they are lacking a specialization you feel they need they have?
I assume you want to be a melee character since you want to fight "up close and personal"-- what is your fighting style beyond that? Do you use a two handed weapon? Weapon and shield? Unarmed fighting?
What roles do you play in the party? Are you primarily a tank? Charger? Healer? Party face? Little bit of everything?
Also, what are your cleric domains? Some domains dovetail with other class abilities better than others.
What spells do you find yourself casting most often?
Not asking these questions to be annoying, but to try to focus your thoughts and help us help you.
One thing to bear in mind whenever you multiclass and you are playing a full class like a cleric -- you drop your caster level. This also means you advance your level dependent domain abilities more slowly. As nuclearsunburn notes, you can probably get away with a 1 level dip, but don't consider going too much farther. (I would say 1-2 levels is probably okay.)
That said, what I can say for the limited information we've got:
Pros to dipping into rogue:
- More skills become class skills, and more skill points as you note. Getting Perception, Acrobatics, and Stealth can almost universally be useful.
- 1 die of sneak attack, useful if you already tend to join melee with other party members and flank them. (If you melee solo or don't use a lot of flanking tactics, then not so much.) It's not huge damage, but might be useful.
- You can also deal this sneak attack damage with touch-based spells, IIRC.
- Trapfinding if you desperately need someone to disarm magical traps (but as your party is 11th level, I doubt that is the case, and you as a cleric can use the find traps spell and dispel magic to suppress or get rid of magical traps. Alternately, many rogue archetypes replace trapfinding and may provide something attractive to you.
- Boost to Reflex saves (something clerics tend not to be good at)
- You gain a handful of weapon proficiencies (hand crossbow and sap, since you get the others from being an elf, IIRC). Of course at 11th level I don't see you suddenly changing your weapon/fighting style to accommodate these, but who knows).
- A 2nd level dip (I would absolutely go no further than this) would add Evasion which is always nice, and a rogue talent, which allows access to some unique abilities like fast stealth.
Cons to dipping into rogue:
- Caster level/domain advancement slows down
- BAB progression slows down (assuming a 1 level dip, you put yourself behind as 1st level rogue has +0 BAB). This is a big one to bear in mind as I'm guessing you want to be good at combat.
- Some rogue abilities do not work in medium armor, which you may wear as a cleric--if you are going into 2 levels of rogue, you'd not get the benefit of evasion (but if 1 level I am not sure it matters).
Nothing lost/gained:
- You stay d8 hit die
Other things you might consider are the kinds of skills you want and how many, what your fighting style is, and how often you see combat. If you see lots of melee combat, maybe a full BAB class would be better--I think almost all of them give martial weapon proficiency in addition to better hit points and BAB. Ranger as noted by another poster grants more skills and favored enemy. Fighter doesn't grant more skill points but does add to class skills, and gives proficiency in heavy armor and tower shields (nice for a tanky cleric), and a bonus feat. Barbarian adds a few more skills (not as many as ranger or rogue), a couple more hit points, and the option to rage when things get dire.
If you're more of a support character, maybe bard or alchemist would be better.
Or monk, if you fancy adding some extra feats and proficiencies and imagine you might punch things a bit.
IF IN DOUBT: nothing will hurt you if you stay cleric. That is always the safest bet if you are not sure.
But in the end it's entirely what you want out of your character based on your play style and your character concept.
Well if you're looking for extra skills, consider a level of Ranger instead. You'll get a +1 to attack, you'll get better saves, and you'll get proficiency in a whole bunch of weapons. One level of Rogue isn't going to do much for you besides trapfinding (which is only semi-useful), and +1d6 sneak attack, which is really not all that good. Personally, my favorite one level multiclass with a Cleric is a level of fighter, for heavy armor, martial weapons, a point of base attack, and an extra feat.
In any case, I wouldn't recommend going with more than one level into another class. With full-caster class like Cleric, you just give up too much if you go any deeper.
Well last encounter we finished we got five levels so I can do five levels of a class if I multi class.
If you've got five levels to work with, and you absolutely are dead-set on multi-classing, my advice would be to do a level of Ranger (if you want skills) or Fighter (if you want armor and a feat...both classes give you weapons), and 4 levels of cleric. You really can't afford to set your spellcasting back more than that if you want to stay relevant to the party. When you take a level other than cleric, your Save DCs lag, your Caster Level lags, and your access to higher level spells lags. Not to mention your channel energy and its DC. You lose a lot when you multi-class as a cleric.
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Five levels of full caster is better than pretty much any dip you can do into another core class.
It entirely depends on your character concept, which is why people are asking for more information. "Cleric who casts spells and is in melee a lot" is not a concept, it's a description of a character class. A concept is "I am the servant of the god of redemption who spends a lot of time healing people," or "I am the servant of the god of trickery and darkness and I sneak about collecting secrets for my Lord," or "I am a mighty crusader who backs my mace swings with spells gifted from the heavens." And so on.
Is your cleric more combat focused or melee focused? Who does your cleric serve? What missions do you do, if any, for your church?
You say you want extra skills -- which skills? Why? Are there skills that are not being covered by other party members? Which ones? Why are is your character the best person to learn them? Has your character been practicing at these skills?
What does being an elf have to do with being a rogue? Is there something about your elf character that they are lacking a specialization you feel they need they have?
I assume you want to be a melee character since you want to fight "up close and personal"-- what is your fighting style beyond that? Do you use a two handed weapon? Weapon and shield? Unarmed fighting?
What roles do you play in the party? Are you primarily a tank? Charger? Healer? Party face? Little bit of everything?
Also, what are your cleric domains? Some domains dovetail with other class abilities better than others.
What spells do you find yourself casting most often?
Not asking these questions to be annoying, but to try to focus your thoughts and help us help you.
One thing to bear in mind whenever you multiclass and you are playing a full class like a cleric -- you drop your caster level. This also means you advance your level dependent domain abilities more slowly. As nuclearsunburn notes, you can probably get away with a 1 level dip, but don't consider going too much farther. (I would say 1-2 levels is probably okay.)
That said, what I...
I'm one of our healers but we have a few ranged players. When it comes to missions some times we will do missions for town officials or just go traveling but we end up do some serious missions for mayors or guards. I don't serve any body.
I fight with a shield and an elven curved blade. The spell I cast the most is cure moderate wounds and I channel energy. The channel energy I use is good energy. My domain is Sun domain. My goddess is Sarenrae. I would like my elf to have better acrobatics and evasion for some of the encounters we have.
You should have two domains...
I would like my elf to have better acrobatics and evasion for some of the encounters we have.
Then yes, it sounds like rogue or monk are your choices. Given you also do some intrigue play, rogue is probably better. I would not do more than 2 levels, so make your other 3 cleric.
Ok Healing domain is my other domain thats why I use heal moderate wounds and channel energy good because I can use it un the kill the undead or to heal my party members.
How do you fight with a shield and an elven curve blade? Do you mean scimitar? And yes, DeathQuaker has it right. if you really, REALLY are going to multiclass rogue then go ahead and do two levels, to get the +1 attack, and get a rogue talent you can trade in for a combat feat.
Democratus, I'm with you on that. None of what you get for a level in any class makes up for what you lose in your cleric progression.
How do you fight with a shield and an elven curve blade? Do you mean scimitar? And yes, DeathQuaker has it right. if you really, REALLY are going to multiclass rogue then go ahead and do two levels, to get the +1 attack, and get a rogue talent you can trade in for a combat feat.
Democratus, I'm with you on that. None of what you get for a level in any class makes up for what you lose in your cleric progression.
I meant elven curved sword my GM told me it was a one handed weapon I can use with a shield.
Giving up full-progression spellcasting is not something to be done lightly. A single level of rogue taken to vastly increase your range of class skills, bump up your Reflex save and get +1d6 sneak attack has its virtues for your character individually, but might not pay off for your team as a whole. It'd be different if your concept, from the beginning, had been cleric/rogue and you'd been pursuing both together (they're rarely stellar but they can be made to work); but by now your party has come to rely on you as a full-bore provider of high-level utility spells, and weakening your abilities in that regard may make the team a bit less effective.
If you weren't restricted to base classes, I'd recommend the APG's Holy Vindicator prestige class for a cleric who wanted to branch out of the base class a bit.
I've been looking into it but I don't know if my GM will let me use a prestige class.
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The additional full caster levels are almost certainly better than what you would get from multiclassing, especially at high levels. If your cleric multiclasses you will miss out on the best high level spells. For such a high level cleric it's rarely worth your while to swing a weapon.
For example, your Summon Monster spells are most effective if you don't multiclass. Summon Monster is often the most powerful offensive and defensive action available to a high level cleric. Why take a level or two in another class, when you can Summon creatures with those class abilities? If you are a Level 16 Cleric you can cast Summon Monster VIII. With a few feats (e.g. Sacred Summons, Spell Focus[Conjuration], Augment Summoning, and Superior Summoning) this can get you d4+2 pouncing augmented Dire Tigers (SMVI) or d3+1 augmented Fire Giants (SMVII).
You can even summon rogue-like or bard-like (e.g. bralani azata is a 7th level bard) things. Consider the effect of using Summon Monster VII to get a swarm (3-6) of elf-like Bralani Azata (SMV), each able to cast two Cure Serious Wounds and two Lightning Bolts. One casting gets you 6-12 Lightning Bolts (that's 42d6 to 84d6 blast damage!), Inspire Courage +2, and a small army of archers and healers. Careful planning can even get you a creature with many ranks in a variety of exotic skills. This is almost certainly better than the benefits of a few levels in some other class.
P.s. In the event you decide to summon multiple monsters, you might consider letting the other players control them. They'll like that, and it will prevent you from hogging the spotlight. This works best if you prepare 3x5 note cards that describe the monster and pass them out to the other players.
How do you fight with a shield and an elven curve blade? Do you mean scimitar? And yes, DeathQuaker has it right. if you really, REALLY are going to multiclass rogue then go ahead and do two levels, to get the +1 attack, and get a rogue talent you can trade in for a combat feat.
Democratus, I'm with you on that. None of what you get for a level in any class makes up for what you lose in your cleric progression.
She could always see if her GM would let her have the magical knack trait (maybe with the additional traits feat). That would help with the caster level staying high. 2 levels shouldn't stunt spell level advancement too badly. Especially as they appear to be leveling in chunks at a time.