The "new" Theurge with only Core + APG


Rules Questions


I'm tempted to try the new MT approach with SLA for meeting the requirements. However, my GM only allows core + APG. No non-core races or other books.

What are my options to get SLAs to qualify for the prestige class? I think the Trickery domain (Copycat) should work and maybe the wizard's scrying subschool, though that's a 3rd level SLA.

Would the scying school work? Am I missing other options?


Scrying school does not work. its not 'at least' a second level spell, its a second level spell. Trickery is about it.


You need 1st levels equivalent SLA's. Copycapt doesn't qualify because it's sorcerer/wizard 2.


I'm pretty sure, MT requires 2nd level spells from one divine and one arcane class, so Copycat should work just fine ;)
Getting a 1st level SLA would be way too easy anyway. Gnome magic. Or a level Paladin. Or inquisitor. Or whatever.

Ok, if scrying doesn't work (not really surprised by that), it's gor to be Trickery. Too bad I'm not really a fan of that domain or the deities that grant it. :/

Bit of a letdown. But thanks anyway. :)


Aioran wrote:
You need 1st levels equivalent SLA's. Copycapt doesn't qualify because it's sorcerer/wizard 2.

This is incorrect. the requirement for MT is second level arcane and divine spells.


Oh my god, I was such a derp yesterday. Yes copycat qualifies. As penance I will have a look for a thread that was made a while back which had a list of things that could be used to qualify early for MT.

EDIT:
This is a lot harder with just Core+APG...

Lantern Lodge

I believe also the Liberation domain works, as it operates as Freedom of Movement.


If your GM balks, as I estimate the chance is pretty high that he will, I suggest offering an alternative.
The MT hazing levels (basically from around 4th to around 8th) are pretty grossly underpowered.
However 3/4 advancement (3 levels of wizard and cleric spellcasting per 4 total levels) is pretty balanced. I do not believe that being able to have 9th/7th casting at 10th level is balanced. There's a good chance your GM will feel the same way.

So ask to be allowed to take 1 and only 1 MT level after cleric-1/wizard-1. Making you a 2/2 caster at level 3
Then to be allowed to take the 2nd level in MT at 2C/2W, making you a 4/4 caster at level 6
Then to be allowed to take the 3rd and the remainder of the MT levels once you qualify normally (3C/3W) 6/6 at level 9, and so on.

That's my two cents. The existing 'new' ruling is offensively gamey. If MTs are supposed to be able to finesse around the entry requirements, change the entry requirements. Something like I've described would largely fix the problem.


Blave wrote:

I'm tempted to try the new MT approach with SLA for meeting the requirements. However, my GM only allows core + APG. No non-core races or other books.

What are my options to get SLAs to qualify for the prestige class? I think the Trickery domain (Copycat) should work and maybe the wizard's scrying subschool, though that's a 3rd level SLA.

Would the scying school work? Am I missing other options?

Hmm, interesting question, my DM has basically the same, but with added feats.


EWHM wrote:
If your GM balks, as I estimate the chance is pretty high that he will, I suggest offering an alternative.

He wouldn't balk. He wouldn't even notice. I could tell him being an elf with Constitution 12 (or some other weird stuff) is enough to play an MT from level 1 to 20 and he would just shrug and let it pass. He's a good GM but his rules knowledge is ... lacking.

I'm the rules-guy in our group. But that's exactly the reason why I want to get it right.

Anyway, if the Trickery Domain is my only option, I probably won't play the MT. I could make do with Calistria, but we already got a cleric of the Savored Sting in our group.

We just hit level 9 so even a regular MT should be playable as backup character. Or maybe I try a Fighter 1/Diviner (Scrying) 1/EK.


Where are these new rules for applying for theurge?


Here's the guide to early entry

It mentions quite a bit of non-Core/APG stuff, but it's there. It also quotes the rules update that has enabled early entry.

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