Hi all, I've been away for awhile but am just about to start up a new game, and I'd like some advice. I've never really built a fighter before, but I'd like to play one in my upcoming game so I could use some help...
The idea would be that she's a single 1h weapon user. I know, bad idea, but I intentionally want to lower my killy factor because my GM gets annoyed when I slaughter things too easy and I'd rather her not get irritated this time. That said, I want my character to still be good and extremely survivable, as we'll be playing with just 2 characters most likely.
Right now, I'm trying to decide between a lore warden or a swordlord to pull this off. Either way would be fine, and I can go str or dex based either way, though thematically I'd prefer my character to be dex based (she's the agile fighter sort), just not enough to burn a ton of extra feats and gold to bring to an even playing field. I'd like to keep a decent bit of damage, although I know she won't be a damage monster - the AoO generating things would be really good, though, if possible. I've been looking at the swordlord guide, and the retributive build looks interesting, but I'd like to get some opinions on other options as well (also, why MoMS as the monk dip there, if anyone knows, rather than Maneuver Master?). Thanks in advance!!
Not the most beastly build ever, but fun. A splash of Rogue on an Aldori Duelist (PrC in the Future!). Here is Katerina the Maid
You can of course, season to taste ;)
GNOME
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The swordlord guide is very good but it was created before the aldori swordlord prestige class.
This is a crazy Aldori dex-based build which goes big at level 6. It builds off the advice in the guide but goes dex...
1. Swordlord/gladiator Fighter 1
2. Swordlord/gladiator Fighter 1 + Kensai Magus 1
3. Swordlord/gladiator Fighter 1 + Kensai Magus 1 + MoMS/Sohei Monk 1
4. Swordlord/gladiator Fighter 2 + Kensai Magus 1 + MoMS/Sohei Monk 1
5. Swordlord/gladiator Fighter 3 + Kensai Magus 1 + MoMS/Sohei Monk 1
6. Swordlord/gladiator Fighter 4 + Kensai Magus 1 + MoMS/Sohei Monk 1 + Aldori Dwordlord PrC 1
7. Swordlord/gladiator Fighter 4 + Kensai Magus 1 + MoMS/Sohei Monk 1 + Aldori Dwordlord PrC 2
8. Swordlord/gladiator Fighter 5 + Kensai Magus 1 + MoMS/Sohei Monk 1 + Aldori Dwordlord PrC 2
9. Swordlord/gladiator Fighter 6 + Kensai Magus 1 + MoMS/Sohei Monk 1 + Aldori Dwordlord PrC 2
10. Swordlord/gladiator Fighter 7 + Kensai Magus 1 + MoMS/Sohei Monk 1 + Aldori Dwordlord PrC 2
After level 10 you can go anywhere you want with this but I'd stick with the fighter archetype until level 11 and then complete the PrC.
The swordlord guide is very good but it was created before the aldori swordlord prestige class.
This is a crazy Aldori dex-based build which goes big at level 6. It builds off the advice in the guide but goes dex...
1. Swordlord/gladiator Fighter 1
2. Swordlord/gladiator Fighter 1 + Kensai Magus 1
3. Swordlord/gladiator Fighter 1 + Kensai Magus 1 + MoMS/Sohei Monk 1
4. Swordlord/gladiator Fighter 2 + Kensai Magus 1 + MoMS/Sohei Monk 1
5. Swordlord/gladiator Fighter 3 + Kensai Magus 1 + MoMS/Sohei Monk 1
6. Swordlord/gladiator Fighter 4 + Kensai Magus 1 + MoMS/Sohei Monk 1 + Aldori Dwordlord PrC 1
7. Swordlord/gladiator Fighter 4 + Kensai Magus 1 + MoMS/Sohei Monk 1 + Aldori Dwordlord PrC 2
8. Swordlord/gladiator Fighter 5 + Kensai Magus 1 + MoMS/Sohei Monk 1 + Aldori Dwordlord PrC 2
9. Swordlord/gladiator Fighter 6 + Kensai Magus 1 + MoMS/Sohei Monk 1 + Aldori Dwordlord PrC 2
10. Swordlord/gladiator Fighter 7 + Kensai Magus 1 + MoMS/Sohei Monk 1 + Aldori Dwordlord PrC 2After level 10 you can go anywhere you want with this but I'd stick with the fighter archetype until level 11 and then complete the PrC.
What do you get from the kensai? Is exotic weapon proff and focus?
Get bodyguard, combat reflexes and the benevolent armor enchantment. You will save your group members many times and don't need damage at all. Your GM probably will welcome that :-)
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What do you get from the kensai? Is exotic weapon proff and focus?The swordlord guide is very good but it was created before the aldori swordlord prestige class.
This is a crazy Aldori dex-based build which goes big at level 6. It builds off the advice in the guide but goes dex...
1. Swordlord/gladiator Fighter 1
2. Swordlord/gladiator Fighter 1 + Kensai Magus 1
3. Swordlord/gladiator Fighter 1 + Kensai Magus 1 + MoMS/Sohei Monk 1
4. Swordlord/gladiator Fighter 2 + Kensai Magus 1 + MoMS/Sohei Monk 1
5. Swordlord/gladiator Fighter 3 + Kensai Magus 1 + MoMS/Sohei Monk 1
6. Swordlord/gladiator Fighter 4 + Kensai Magus 1 + MoMS/Sohei Monk 1 + Aldori Dwordlord PrC 1
7. Swordlord/gladiator Fighter 4 + Kensai Magus 1 + MoMS/Sohei Monk 1 + Aldori Dwordlord PrC 2
8. Swordlord/gladiator Fighter 5 + Kensai Magus 1 + MoMS/Sohei Monk 1 + Aldori Dwordlord PrC 2
9. Swordlord/gladiator Fighter 6 + Kensai Magus 1 + MoMS/Sohei Monk 1 + Aldori Dwordlord PrC 2
10. Swordlord/gladiator Fighter 7 + Kensai Magus 1 + MoMS/Sohei Monk 1 + Aldori Dwordlord PrC 2After level 10 you can go anywhere you want with this but I'd stick with the fighter archetype until level 11 and then complete the PrC.
Yep, also +1 AC and True Strike once a day for neat tricks like disarming giants.
The monk is mostly for Crane Style synergy.
Mostly taken from Secrets of the Swordlords.
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Sam The Swordlord
Human (Taldan) Magus (Kensai) 1
LN Medium Humanoid (human)
Init +6; Senses Perception +1
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Defense
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AC 15, touch 15, flat-footed 10 (+5 Dex)
hp 9 (1d8+1)
Fort +3, Ref +4, Will +2
Defensive Abilities canny defense +1
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee Dueling sword +6 (1d8+1/19-20/x2)
Magus (Kensai) Spells Prepared (CL 1):
1 (1/day) True Strike
0 (at will) Detect Magic, Read Magic
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Statistics
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Str 12, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 11, Cha 12
Base Atk +0; CMB +1; CMD 16
Feats Combat Expertise +/-1, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Sword, Aldori dueling)
Traits Reactionary, Sword Scion
Skills Intimidate +5, Perception +1, Perform (act) +2, Spellcraft +5
Languages Common, Draconic
SQ arcane pool (+1) (2/day), chosen weapon (sword, aldori dueling), spell combat
Other Gear Dueling sword, 150 GP
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Special Abilities
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Arcane Pool (+1) (2/day) (Su) Infuse own power into a held weapon, granting enhancement bonus or selected item powers.
Canny Defense +1 (Ex) +INT bonus to AC (max Kensai level).
Chosen Weapon (Sword, Aldori dueling) Kensai abilities only function when wielding a weapon of this type.
Combat Expertise +/-1 Bonus to AC in exchange for an equal penalty to attack.
Spell Combat (Ex) Use a weapon with one hand at -2 and cast a spell with the other.
Sword Scion +1 to hit and CMB with longswords and Aldori Dueling Swords.
Sam The Swordlord
Human (Taldan) Fighter (Aldori Swordlord) 1 Magus (Kensai) 1
LN Medium Humanoid (human)
Init +6; Senses Perception +3
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Defense
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AC 19, touch 15, flat-footed 14 (+4 armor, +5 Dex)
hp 17 (1d10+1d8+3)
Fort +5, Ref +4, Will +3
Defensive Abilities canny defense +1
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee Dueling sword +7 (1d8+1/19-20/x2)
Magus (Kensai) Spells Prepared (CL 1):
1 (1/day) True Strike
0 (at will) Detect Magic, Read Magic
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Statistics
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Str 12, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 12, Cha 11
Base Atk +1; CMB +2 (+4 Disarming); CMD 17 (19 vs. Disarm)
Feats Combat Expertise +/-1, Improved Disarm, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Sword, Aldori dueling)
Traits Reactionary, Sword Scion
Skills Acrobatics +2, Climb +3, Escape Artist +2, Fly +2, Intimidate +4, Perception +3, Perform (act) +1, Ride +2, Spellcraft +5, Stealth +2, Survival +5, Swim +3
Languages Common, Draconic
SQ arcane pool (+1) (2/day), chosen weapon (sword, aldori dueling), spell combat
Other Gear Chain shirt, Dueling sword, 50 GP
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Special Abilities
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Arcane Pool (+1) (2/day) (Su) Infuse own power into a held weapon, granting enhancement bonus or selected item powers.
Canny Defense +1 (Ex) +INT bonus to AC (max Kensai level).
Chosen Weapon (Sword, Aldori dueling) Kensai abilities only function when wielding a weapon of this type.
Combat Expertise +/-1 Bonus to AC in exchange for an equal penalty to attack.
Improved Disarm You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when disarming.
Spell Combat (Ex) Use a weapon with one hand at -2 and cast a spell with the other.
Sword Scion +1 to hit and CMB with longswords and Aldori Dueling Swords.
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Sam The Swordlord
Male Human (Taldan) Aldori Swordlord 2 Fighter (Aldori Swordlord) 6 Magus (Kensai) 1 Monk (Master of Many Styles) 1
LN Medium Humanoid (human)
Init +9; Senses Perception +14
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Defense
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AC 28, touch 20, flat-footed 18 (+6 armor, +2 shield, +6 Dex, +4 dodge)
hp 68 (8d10+2d8+11)
Fort +11, Ref +10, Will +8 (+2 vs. fear); +4 vs. effects that cause you to lose your grip on weapons
Defensive Abilities bravery +2, canny defense +1, defensive parry +2
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee +2 Sword, Aldori dueling +14/+9 (1d8+9/19-20/x2) and
. . Unarmed strike +10/+5 (1d6+1/x2)
Magus (Kensai) Spells Prepared (CL 1):
1 (1/day) True Strike
0 (at will) Detect Magic, Read Magic
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Statistics
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Str 12, Dex 20, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 12, Cha 11
Base Atk +8; CMB +10 (+12 Disarming); CMD 29 (35 vs. Disarm, 33 vs. Sunder)
Feats Agile Maneuvers, Aldori Dueling Mastery, Combat Expertise +/-3, Combat Reflexes (6 AoO/round), Crane Riposte, Crane Style, Crane Wing, Dazzling Display (Sword, Aldori dueling), Dodge, Improved Disarm, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist (3/day) (DC 16), Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Sword, Aldori dueling), Weapon Specialization (Sword, Aldori dueling)
Traits Reactionary, Sword Scion
Skills Acrobatics +14, Climb +5, Diplomacy +4, Escape Artist +9, Intimidate +13 (+14 to demoralize with Dazzling Display & Aldori dueling sword, +15 to demoralize with Dazzling Display & Aldori dueling sword), Knowledge (nobility) +7, Perception +14, Sense Motive +14, Spellcraft +5, Stealth +9, Survival +5, Swim +5, Use Magic Device +4
Languages Common, Draconic
SQ arcane pool (+1) (2/day), chosen weapon (sword, aldori dueling), disarming strike, display weapon prowess +3, fuse style (2 styles), spell combat, stunning fist (stun), unarmed strike (1d6)
Other Gear +2 Mithral Chain shirt, +2 Sword, Aldori dueling, Gloves of dueling, 50 GP
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Special Abilities
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Agile Maneuvers Use DEX instead of STR for CMB
Aldori Dueling Mastery Gain combat benefits when using Aldori dueling swords
Arcane Pool (+1) (2/day) (Su) Infuse own power into a held weapon, granting enhancement bonus or selected item powers.
Bravery +2 (Ex) +2 to Will save vs. Fear
Canny Defense +1 (Ex) +INT bonus to AC (max Kensai level).
Chosen Weapon (Sword, Aldori dueling) Kensai abilities only function when wielding a weapon of this type.
Combat Expertise +/-3 Bonus to AC in exchange for an equal penalty to attack.
Combat Reflexes (6 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Crane Riposte When you deflect an attack, you may make an attack of opportunity
Crane Style Penalty when fighting defensively reduced to -2 and dodge bonus increases by 1.
Crane Wing May deflect one attack per round while fighting defensively or using total defense
Dazzling Display (Sword, Aldori dueling) Intimidate check to demoralize can affect those within 30' who see you.
Defensive Parry +2 (Ex) +1 bonus to AC against melee attacks after making a full attack.
Disarming Strike (Ex) At 5th level, when an Aldori swordlord successfully disarms an opponent using an Aldori dueling sword, the swordlord also deals normal damage to the target, but without the normal Strength bonus to damage. This ability replaces weapon training 1.
Display Weapon Prowess +3 (Ex) Bonus to Dazzling Display, perf combat, & dueling parry and resolve.
Fuse Style (2 styles) (Ex) At 1st level, a master of many styles can fuse two of the styles he knows into a more perfect style. The master of many styles can have two style feat stances active at once. Starting a stance provided by a style feat is still a swift action, but whe
Gloves of dueling These supple gloves grant the wearer a +4 bonus to her CMD against disarm attacks, attempts to sunder her wielded weapons, and effects that cause her to lose her grip on her weapons (such as grease). The wearer doesn't drop held weapons when panicked or stunned. If the wearer has the weapon training class feature and is using an appropriate weapon, her weapon training bonus increases by +2.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, greater magic weapon; Cost 7,500 gp
Improved Disarm You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when disarming.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Spell Combat (Ex) Use a weapon with one hand at -2 and cast a spell with the other.
Stunning Fist (3/day) (DC 16) You can stun an opponent with an unarmed attack.
Stunning Fist (Stun) (Ex) At 1st level, the monk gains Stunning Fist as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. At 4th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the monk gains the ability to apply a new condition to the target of his Stunning Fist. This conditio
Sword Scion +1 to hit and CMB with longswords and Aldori Dueling Swords.
Unarmed Strike (1d6) The Monk does lethal damage with his unarmed strikes.
The idea would be that she's a single 1h weapon user. I know, bad idea, but I intentionally want to lower my killy factor because my GM gets annoyed when I slaughter things too easy and I'd rather her not get irritated this time. That said, I want my character to still be good and extremely survivable, as we'll be playing with just 2 characters most likely.
Right now, I'm trying to decide between a lore warden or a swordlord to pull this off. Either way would be fine, and I can go str or dex based either way, though thematically I'd prefer my character to be dex based (she's the agile fighter sort), just not enough to burn a ton of extra feats and gold to bring to an even playing field. I'd like to keep a decent bit of damage, although I know she won't be a damage monster - the AoO generating things would be really good, though, if possible. I've been looking at the swordlord guide, and the retributive build looks interesting, but I'd like to get some opinions on other options as well (also, why MoMS as the monk dip there, if anyone knows, rather than Maneuver Master?). Thanks in advance!!
The MoMS styles dip lets you get the Crane Style/Crane Wing/Crane Riposte tree fairly quickly. Since you can do two styles at once, you can also look at Monkey Style (to take no penalties for prone), the Panther Style tree (for more AoO fun), and my new favorite, the Archon Style tree (divert attacks from your allies). (Snapping Turtle Style isn't helpful for Aldori Swordlords, but useful for other one-handed weapon wielders).
Lore Warden gets you all knowledge skills as class skills and two extra skill ranks per level. If you're building along with a regular group, you might ask if anyone else has the knowledge areas covered. If not, Lore Warden might be the way to go.
And yes, definitely check out the Aldori Swordlord prestige class. You can also take Dervish Dance as your second level fighter bonus feat and then retrain it at 4th of 8th level after you get into the prestige class.
It seems like dipping magus for 1 level doesn't really help though - yeah, you get a teensy bit of casting and weapon focus/prof, but you lose a point of BAB (more than cancelling the focus) and delay your fighter abilities. Wouldn't a second level of monk be better, for the bonus feat there that ignores prereqs and the BAB point that comes with it?
Also, MoMS is better than Maneuver Master even if you're only getting crane? It seems like Maneuver Master would be just as good with a single style, but allow you a free disarm on top of everything else with a full attack too.
I'm taking it Swordlord is the way to go here rather than Lore Warden then, yeah? Oh, and about the bodyguard things...I'd rather not focus THAT much on it, because there's likely to be only a single other group member - I have to be able to do enough damage to cover the gap there, I just don't want to go as high as I have in the past with very hitty magus, barbarian, inquisitor, and summoner builds...
The MoMS styles dip lets you get the Crane Style/Crane Wing/Crane Riposte tree fairly quickly. Since you can do two styles at once, you can also look at Monkey Style (to take no penalties for prone), the Panther Style tree (for more AoO fun), and my new favorite, the Archon Style tree (divert attacks from your allies). (Snapping Turtle Style isn't helpful for Aldori Swordlords, but useful for other one-handed weapon wielders).
Lore Warden gets you all knowledge skills as class skills and two extra skill ranks per level. If you're building along with a regular group, you might ask if anyone else has the knowledge areas covered. If not, Lore Warden might be the way to go.
And yes, definitely check out the Aldori Swordlord prestige class. You can also take Dervish Dance as your second level fighter bonus feat and then retrain it at 4th of 8th level after you get into the prestige class.
We won't have knowledges covered - it's gonna be me and likely a cavalier headed into hellknight. I haven't heard of Archon Style there...where's that from, and is it better than Snake for the extra counterattacks?
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its really hard to offer specific advice without specifics about character creation... what's the point buy (some builds work way better in high point buys)? what pantheon are you using and how much freedom do you have to make up new gods? PFS acceptable archetypes/PrCs only?
if you're not worried about optimizing damage why don't you think about a monk? you can flurry with a temple sword and pick up crane style early- that way you'd be a single 1-hander 'fighter' with a bunch of tricks up your sleeve. like any monk, this works better the higher your point buy. you could use a light monk weapon and weapon finesse or the sensei archetype to be slightly less MAD (a QingGong/Ki Mystic/Sensei would be pretty interesting- mystic wisdom would let him apply any QingGong effect to his teammate...)
another interesting option might be to look at a cleric? if you're neutral channeling negative energy you could take channel smite and guided hand at 1st level(though you'd need an appropriate god with a 1-handed favored weapon like a longsword or scimitar/rapier). if you take destruction and strength [ferocity] for your domains you can add both smite bonuses to each attack (up to probably 8 attacks each day, which is enough most days) plus channel damage when desired, and you get your Wis mod to attack rolls (its a good build for an Aasimar too, if they're allowed). this, obviously, wouldn't be as effective as a straight combat class in a fight but it would add other benefits to your party of 2- like healing, control and summoned meat shields. they have a good excuse for keeping one hand open too- to cast spells!
a bard would be another option. dex build, pick up dervish dance as early as possible. they have the same excuse for keeping one hand open and would also add some useful options like buffs, skills, healing, and some utility spells. the dervish dancer would fit nicely with the theme or the archivist would add trapfinding to your options.
magi are specifically designed to fight with a single 1-handed weapon, so that may be something to consider as well... they'd also add more versatility than a fighter and could use a dervish dance build really well (especially if you like elves or tieflings)
So looking at the Swordlord PrC, it doesn't seem so great honestly...it gets dex to damage, but only if you aren't using anything including unarmed strike on the other hand - that negates the extra attacks for snake style or TWF with it, and seems like it would suggest going single style crane instead. The other bonuses seem geared entirely around demoralize, except the one for reducing combat expertise penalty (which you wouldn't do because you'd be doing fight defensively for crane and the swordlord archetype bonuses) and the additional ac, which is nice, true... Student of War seems like it would be a better PrC to jump into to me, honestly, what with the 6 skill point and boosting of the will save, and the know your enemy flexible bonus...
its really hard to offer specific advice without specifics about character creation... what's the point buy (some builds work way better in high point buys)? what pantheon are you using and how much freedom do you have to make up new gods? PFS acceptable archetypes/PrCs only?
if you're not worried about optimizing damage why don't you think about a monk? you can flurry with a temple sword and pick up crane style early- that way you'd be a single 1-hander 'fighter' with a bunch of tricks up your sleeve. like any monk, this works better the higher your point buy. you could use a light monk weapon and weapon finesse or the sensei archetype to be slightly less MAD (a QingGong/Ki Mystic/Sensei would be pretty interesting- mystic wisdom would let him apply any QingGong effect to his teammate...)
another interesting option might be to look at a cleric? if you're neutral channeling negative energy you could take channel smite and guided hand at 1st level(though you'd need an appropriate god with a 1-handed favored weapon like a longsword or scimitar/rapier). if you take destruction and strength [ferocity] for your domains you can add both smite bonuses to each attack (up to probably 8 attacks each day, which is enough most days) plus channel damage when desired, and you get your Wis mod to attack rolls (its a good build for an Aasimar too, if they're allowed). this, obviously, wouldn't be as effective as a straight combat class in a fight but it would add other benefits to your party of 2- like healing, control and summoned meat shields. they have a good excuse for keeping one hand open too- to cast spells!
a bard would be another option. dex build, pick up dervish dance as early as possible. they have the same excuse for keeping one hand open and would also add some useful options like buffs, skills, healing, and some utility spells. the dervish dancer would fit nicely with the theme or the archivist would add trapfinding to your options.
magi are specifically designed to fight with a single 1-handed...
Sorry Nate, it'd be 20 point buy, Golarion deities, no additional gods. Not PFS only, but nothing terribly outlandish either.
I don't want to do monk as primary just because it doesn't really fit what I want to do (and I've never liked the look of temple swords). I do intend to play a monk at some point, but that would be for unarmed. I don't really want to do cleric, for a couple reasons: 1) having full casting will be bad for me, because if I have the option I WILL invariably end up using it to do all the horrible things full casting does, and I'm trying specifically not to do that, 2) I don't really do very well with religious characters, and 3) if I was going with a divine caster I'd go oracle, because I have a special kind of hatred for prepared casting. Bard WOULD be good, but I just got off playing a bard in my last game so I don't really want to go the same route again, and I played a spont magus in the game immediately before that, so same deal there...
details, excellent :)
what about something like this?
CN Hobgoblin, Urban Barbarian
Str 12; Dex 19 (17+2, put level bonuses here); Con 16 (14+2);
Int 10; Wis 12; Cha 8
1- Weapon Finesse (fight with a rapier or something)
2- Lesser Beast Totem (fight with claws as often as possible)
3- Dervish Dance (fight with scimitar- when raging use claw as 2ndary attack... technically, RAW, "you can use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on melee attack and damage rolls" while fighting this way- meaning it will benefit your claw also)
4+ do whatever you want :)
at 4th level you'll have 20 Dex, 24 while raging- without any buffs or magic items you attack at +11 for 1d6+7 with your scimitar and +6 for 1d6+7 with your claw. you'll also be decent at switch-hitting if you carry a bow. a mithril breastplate will max out your dex bonus (at non-raging level), which is still a decent AC; you could take a handful of fighter levels to up that but it'll delay getting pounce (when you take Greater Beast Totem at Barb 10).
edit: 2 ranks in perform[dance] will cut into your skills... personally, i'd just put a rank in it every level cause i like to max every skill i take, but you could pick something you like but aren't worried about maxing to replace it at 3rd. in a build like this i'd take acrobatics and perception (with dance), and spend a trait to make stealth a class skill (with +1 trait, +4 racial, and +4 or 5 dex you should be pretty stealthy).