Barbarian Lesser Fiend Totem question

[Gingervitus]

"While raging, the barbarian grows a pair of large horns, gaining a gore attack. This attack is a primary attack (unless she is also attacking with weapons, in which case it is a secondary attack) and is made at the barbarian’s full base attack bonus (–5 if it is a secondary attack). The gore attack deals 1d8 points of piercing damage (1d6 if Small) plus the barbarian’s Strength modifier (1/2 if it is a secondary attack)."
So two questions really, 1) does that gore attack do 1d10 damage if I am large, say if I had enlarged person on me? and 2) Besides the 1d8 does this gore attack have any other special properties, specifically during a charge? You would think a pair of large horns would do damage during a charge. Thanks for any help!

[Gingervitus]

Also while I am at it, I am a little unclear on what sort of action a secondary attack actually takes. I mean I get that I can attack and secondary attack, but what about charge, attack and seconary attack, or cleave and secondary attack?

[ShadowcatX]

1) Yes.
2) No. Abilities only do what they say they do, nothing more.

Gingervitus wrote:

Also while I am at it, I am a little unclear on what sort of action a secondary attack actually takes. I mean I get that I can attack and secondary attack, but what about charge, attack and seconary attack, or cleave and secondary attack?

What it means when it says secondary attack is that's a game definition for types of natural attacks (ie. they're at -5 to hit and inflict 1/2 strength damage rather than full strength damage). It does not mean you get to make an attack with them if you would not otherwise be able to.

The only time you're normally able to make more than one attack is on a full attack action. (Cleave is an exception to that rule, but cleave only allows you to do what it says it does, nothing more.) So the only time you can bring in a secondary attack is when you take a full attack action.

[Gingervitus]

Thanks! Though sorry, what was the verdict on cleaving and then secondary attack? Like if I don't move, use a weapon to cleave, am I still am to use the gore attack? Sorry if you answered and I just don't understand lol.

[ShadowcatX]

No you cannot. The reason being is that cleave is a standard action. You only gain the extra attack from a natural weapon on a full attack.

Quote:

As a standard action, you can make a single attack at your full base attack bonus against a foe within reach

[fretgod99]

The big question (for me) is can you Gore and Bite in the same round. I know some monsters can, but PCs can't necessarily do what monsters can.

[ShadowcatX]

fretgod99 wrote:

The big question (for me) is can you Gore and Bite in the same round. I know some monsters can, but PCs can't necessarily do what monsters can.

By the rules, only monsters with the ability to bite and gore in the same round listed in their stat blocks can do so. Personally, I think this is an example of what should be house ruled.

[RtrnofdMax]

One small error in the first post. A medium 1d8 weapon goes to 2d6 when enlarged.

[Barry Armstrong]

ShadowcatX wrote:

fretgod99 wrote:

The big question (for me) is can you Gore and Bite in the same round. I know some monsters can, but PCs can't necessarily do what monsters can.

By the rules, only monsters with the ability to bite and gore in the same round listed in their stat blocks can do so. Personally, I think this is an example of what should be house ruled.

Actually, by the rules you can indeed bite and gore in the same round using this exact example. It doesn't require a house rule. It's printed RAW. It would require a house rule to NOT allow it.

PRD, Core Rulebook, Combat Chapter, Natural Attacks wrote:

...you receive additional attack rolls for multiple limb and body parts capable of making the attack (as noted by the race or ability that grants the attacks).

PRD,Advanced Player's Guide, Barbarian, Lesser Fiend Totem wrote:

While raging, the barbarian grows a pair of large horns, gaining a gore attack.

Emphasis mine. Let's combine the bold parts for clarity:

The Barbarian grows a pair of large horns, gaining a gore attack. He now has an additional body part capable of making an extra natural attack as noted by the ability that grants this attack (Lesser Fiend Totem). It happens to share a limb with his bite attack, if the character has one.

To be fair, this is the only case I've seen in which, by RAW, you have two natural attacks on the same limb. But, you have to remember, it's not LIMITED to one per limb at all times unless you weave natural attacks and manufactured weapons or unarmed strikes (as referenced in the paragraph below the one I quoted from the Combat section). If you use natural weapons only, that limitation doesn't exist.

RtrnofdMax wrote:

One small error in the first post. A medium 1d8 weapon goes to 2d6 when enlarged.

Good catch. 2d6 is better than 1d10 anyways. More min and max dmg.

The only "extra" you'd get by using this ability while Charging is if you have only the gore attack. Then, you'd fall into a special category where you get 1.5xSTR bonus.

If you also have Claws, it gets reduced to wpn dmg + STR bonus (multiple natural attacks). If you Charge and have a greataxe in your hands, it gets reduced further to wpn dmg + .5xSTR bonus (natural + manufactured = secondary attack rules).