Goblin Squad Member
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How does this council identify what is a massive threat to the game community?
I had previously suggested the brainstorm idea (note, the purpose of brainstorming sessions is to get as many ideas as possible out on the table without passing judgment on them immediately - and I tried to make very clear at the time that I wasn't at all sure it was a good idea) of opposing any NBSI Settlements.
I also suggested another idea:
There are fairly specific systems that Ryan has proposed in order to keep PFO from becoming "toxic". I would suggest that accepting and promoting those systems should be the primary prerequisite for inclusion in the Security Council.
Do you have any suggestions to offer?
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Goblin Squad Member
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How does this council identify what is a massive threat to the game community?I had previously suggested the brainstorm idea (note, the purpose of brainstorming sessions is to get as many ideas as possible out on the table without passing judgment on them immediately - and I tried to make very clear at the time that I wasn't at all sure it was a good idea) of opposing any NBSI Settlements.
I also suggested another idea:
There are fairly specific systems that Ryan has proposed in order to keep PFO from becoming "toxic". I would suggest that accepting and promoting those systems should be the primary prerequisite for inclusion in the Security Council.Do you have any suggestions to offer?
I think TSV and TEO have actually done the most sensible thing. Namely organizing people under a kingdom structure. I see more problems organizationally arising from a server wide permanent council.
At one time on these boards during a similar topic I suggested that perhaps more temporary alliances of necessity forming as threats are perceived would work better. If I were to suggest something in line with a council at all, that would still be the one I see as most reasonable.
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Goblin Squad Member
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This Council idea really needs to be a meta organisation similar to the Treaty of Rovagug. Whereby all organisations are represented. It could be as simple as a website to list potential griefers and Goonswarm type organisations. Once targets have been accurately selected, its then up to the various groups to take action against them. The various groups can make up their own in-game reasons as to why they’re acting against individuals or larger communities. If this isn’t having much impact on the larger organisations then plan a weekend where all participating groups target the Goonswarm. The real issue will be stopping the Goonswarm joining the council and finding out ahead of time that they’re going to be attacked.
Frankly though all of the above efforts could prove fruitless if the Goonswarm come to PFO in numbers. In such a case shouldn’t PFO take some action to protect the rest of the player base. Couldn’t they lock Goonswarm and its members into a difference instance from everyone else? I’m not savvy enough to know how these things work in a computer game, but there must be ways that PFO can use to limit the harm they cause the community.
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Goblin Squad Member
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In Andius, we have a proven leader who is not only willing, but is actually driven to stand and fight against the very forces we are currently worried about.
I'm proud of the alliance between The Empyrean Order and The Seventh Veil. To my knowledge, it is the only formal alliance either of us has, and it is the only formal alliance between any of the Great Powers.
I'm also grateful for Andius's prior experience in running a -m-a-j-o-r- [my attempt at strikethrough] guild in an Open PvP MMO, for his willingness to take on this burden, and for his commitment to doing so in a noble manner. Not to mention the experience of -a- -n-u-m-b-e-r- -o-f- -p-e-o-p-l-e- at least one person close to him who -h-a-v-e- has incredibly relevant experience from playing EVE at the highest levels.
Modified. I confess I was indeed trying to bolster Andius's image, and make others feel more comfortable supporting his efforts to serve as AnotherBigTown, to borrow from Ryan's examples.
Thank you, Areks, for keeping me humble.
With my crucified delusions
Of some Messianic grandeur
Furled at half-mast
With the remnants
Of my torn and tattered heart
I would beg for your forgiveness
In my final hour of darkness
As this blade falls
From my fingers
And my soul, in peace, departs
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Goblin Squad Member
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I may be wrong, Bluddwolf, but I think the Outlaw Council already includes the bandits, and Hardin Steele was just extending it to non-bandits as well.
Lhan, Bluddwulf does have a habit of reading much into what is not there. You are correct in saying there is (in PFO lore) an outlaw Council already operating in the River Kingdoms. My suggestion was to steal the name and use it as a larger council to punish groups that wish to wreck the game, for the sake of wrecking the game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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We do exercise vehemence at times, do we not?
What I foresee is that the more common case will not be so much a matter of authorizing the destruction of a settlement deserving ruin, but rather a matter of determining one's own requirements and setting to fulfilling one's own needs that will establish as necessity the destruction of a competing settlement. The citizens of that competing settlement may very much not deserve destruction, charming people one and all, but their occupation of a resource needed by your much more powerful alliance, perhaps adamantly set upon profiting by their strategic possession, this will provide all the motivation you need.
To the point of the OP, so long as your competitors own what their settlement has and characters respawn rather than die, then to gain that needed resource will require you to either enrich that competitor and impoverish yourself or eliminate their claim on that resource.
And if a major infestation of undesirables should sprout and bloom blood red across our arena and set upon us to destroy our investments and income sources then we need not look far for allies among our competitors for we shall all realize that when you fall, we will be next. The alliances of convenience will seethe and merge and if successful someone in it will see opportunity rise up like a great dragon in the heart of their own avarice, and yet another great war will take place.
These things will happen over and over: have no doubt of that. If it is not the Goons it will be someone else. It is as inevitable as humanity, and as common.
What will be rare and worth preserving will be heroic in that setting.
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Goblin Squad Member
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These are the specific instances in which I was speaking about delusions of grandeur. I'm not here to bash anyone, research it yourself. Moreover, ask your counter-part how large, numbers wise, are were the organizations that he has ran... because I've got it on good authority that they were around 13 members strong.In Andius, we have a proven leader who is not only willing, but is actually driven to stand and fight against the very forces we are currently worried about.
I'm proud of the alliance between The Empyrean Order and The Seventh Veil. To my knowledge, it is the only formal alliance either of us has, and it is the only formal alliance between any of the Great Powers.
I'm also grateful for Andius's prior experience in running a major guild in an Open PvP MMO, for his willingness to take on this burden, and for his commitment to doing so in a noble manner. Not to mention the experience of a number of people close to him who have incredibly relevant experience from playing EVE at the highest levels.
Partially correct. The majority of my leadership experience was on 50 man Freelancer server. Our group there was a tryout based organization. We had a series of tests new members had to pass in order to gain official membership status, meant to screen out members who lacked the commitment and ability to face the challenges of belonging to our organization.
The most players we ever had online at a single time was 13. I was however, seen as the primary figure in a much larger alliance that encompassed many such organizations, some of which were larger than us in terms of sheer numbers. This was while I was still in high school and involved in numerous athletic and academic programs.
Darkfall was my first experience with leading an organization that was independently large. I can't give you exact numbers but I know when we moved from elf lands to dwarf lands we had around twenty players online, and where still missing many of our active members who ended up coming over separately. Our organization was growing in size and skill and had started to win some wars and emerge into the major political scene / form our own alliance when it was announced there would be a server wipe for Unholy Wars. At that point things kind of collapsed, which is understandable for a group of newer players in a game with an insanely long grind time.
I think the primary thing people should take away is that nearly all of my leadership experience has been earned in games infamous for their brutality. That I can win wars, and I can form alliances in environments likely to be even harsher than what PFO will offer. That I've preached these same ideals in titles where the odds were impossibly against me.
I've looked over the titles and servers that Pax plays, and seen which channels hold the most players on your TS. You may know how to lead raids and do tournament style PVP but I wonder if you've ever waged a war where you can be attacked anywhere and can lose your territory before.
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Goblin Squad Member
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These are the specific instances in which I was speaking about delusions of grandeur. I'm not here to bash anyone, research it yourself. Moreover, ask your counter-part how large, numbers wise, are were the organizations that he has ran... because I've got it on good authority that they were around 13 members strong.In Andius, we have a proven leader who is not only willing, but is actually driven to stand and fight against the very forces we are currently worried about.
I'm proud of the alliance between The Empyrean Order and The Seventh Veil. To my knowledge, it is the only formal alliance either of us has, and it is the only formal alliance between any of the Great Powers.
I'm also grateful for Andius's prior experience in running a major guild in an Open PvP MMO, for his willingness to take on this burden, and for his commitment to doing so in a noble manner. Not to mention the experience of a number of people close to him who have incredibly relevant experience from playing EVE at the highest levels.
Partially correct. The majority of my leadership experience was on 50 man Freelancer server. Our group there was a tryout based organization. We had a series of tests new members had to pass in order to gain official membership status, meant to screen out members who lacked the commitment and ability to face the challenges of belonging to our organization.
The most players we ever had online at a single time was 13. I was however, seen as the primary figure in a much larger alliance that encompassed many such organizations, some of which were larger than us in terms of sheer numbers. This was while I was still in high school and involved in numerous athletic and academic programs.
Darkfall was my first experience with leading an organization that was independently large. I can't give you exact numbers but I know when we moved from elf lands to dwarf lands we had around twenty players online, and where still missing many of our active...
In short, Pax has.
While our largest organizations (launch wise) are in themeparks, we have had a presence in Eve since it's launch represented by varying numbers.
Sometimes you might not have seen our EVE players on our private TS3, because they were in an alliance voice server.
To go into proper detail would require digging into the past twelve years. I can probably get those veteran members over here to speak more in depth on it if you wish.
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Goblin Squad Member
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No need, simply answer this. How many of those veteran members are represented in Aeternum leadership, and have joined your PFO group?
Also how much time have they spent living in null sec?
We have one of our long term EVE leaders (he's still a leader in EVE) involved with the Aeternum leadership council. However, Dak cann correct me if I'm wrong, all current Aeternum leaders (Reds) have played EVE to a greater or lesser degree.
Our other EVE leaders and some EVE players have a direct line to Aeternum leadership as well. They've been in null sec for years (and remain there to this day).
I got a PM update on what they're doing, today and the alliance they're in has managed to retake the systems the Goons took from them late last year. So things are going well on that front.
I have lived in sovereignty holding null sec alliances as have a few of the other officers I believe. Many of our PfO players also have Eve experience to varying degrees ranging from null sec to high sec organisations.
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Goblin Squad Member
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A lesser or greater degree makes a world of difference. EVE may have some suicide gankers in high sec, but until you've defended territory in null sec you aren't having the same experience that Freelancer, Darkfall, and PFO will offer.
LOL, Freelancer again.
Anyway, yes, pax has extensive experience in living in nullsec space and we've been there since 2004. And no, not all of Pax is out there, we have two corps for the purpose of segregating out our lowsec (note, not highsec, lowsec) from our nullsec players.
No, you won't see that on the Pax site, because of the nature of EVE. I figure our PFO boards will start getting closed to the public once OE starts, as well.
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Goblin Squad Member
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No need, simply answer this. How many of those veteran members are represented in Aeternum leadership, and have joined your PFO group?
Also has that group ever lived in null sec?
Pagan, our ambassador has played Eve extensively. He has experience in content from all security areas.
Nicoli is leading our settlement structure. He is also a leader in Pax Auxilium (a smaller casual incarnation of our Eve division). He has experience in all security levels, working in large alliances, market manipulation, warfare, etc.
Krow is the High Thane and has sandbox experience in heavy pvp sandbox games in the fantasy theme.
Rawn is the architect of Pax generally, and is deeply involved with our leadership decisions. He has experience in Eve up to and including Null, along with other sandbox games.
Those are four examples I could come up with off the cuff.
So, yes. We have that criteria. Perhaps more if we are including online games like Freelancer.
Perhaps you could fill us in on where the Empyrean agency is living or what sovereignty Ad Astra currently holds as you obviously feel this is important?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Perhaps you could fill us in on where the Empyrean agency is living or what sovereignty Ad Astra currently holds as you obviously feel this is important?
Ad Astra currently operates out of high sec and wormhole space. Our group there is also primarily made up of players with limited EVE experience, and I didn't want to attach our group to a NBSI alliance.
That doesn't change the fact that I have a decade+ experience in hardcore titles or that another of our council members is an ex-BoB admiral. Would you like to know what sovereignty they held?
I know Solemnor and respect his experience, as he knows my old alliance. We had a short chat about it on TEO teamspeak a week or so ago. It was your credentials we are questioning
You asked the question "No need, simply answer this. How many of those veteran members are represented in Aeternum leadership, and have joined your PFO group?
Also how much time have they spent living in null sec?"
and we responded
You cast aspersions
"A lesser or greater degree makes a world of difference. EVE may have some suicide gankers in high sec, but until you've defended territory in null sec you aren't having the same experience that Freelancer, Darkfall, and PFO will offer"
So we asked you where you live in Eve. Superfluous question because I already know, still being an Eve player I try to know as much about my environment as possible, then I realised you aren't in my environment because you are over Lustrevik way in nice 0.8 space
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Goblin Squad Member
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All of anyone's experience in PvP in other games is not the real issue here. The issue here is if you are willing to become wolves?
This community has been seriously lacking that killer spirit. I think this is the real point in Ryan Dancey's post. He may have caught wind of Goonswarms plan to come to PFO, took a good look at the anti PvP sentiment here and said to himself, " If they don't become wolves, to fight wolves, they will be sheep served up for slaughter." I look at his post as a wake up call, he used this terminology himself.
I know I have ticked some of you off with my ascertion, that the UnNamed Company has been your sole source of PvP discussion, but that has been the truth of the matter. Many of you think of PvP in just one interaction, Banditry and Anti Banditry.
Ryan has just told you what mind set you better adopt. If there was any doubt before, there shouldn't be any longer. PFO in an Open World PVP Sandbox MMO. It is a game of settlement hex control, competition and conquest.
I wrote it earlier, in the U.S. Military you can learn any job you wish (test score permitting), but regardless of your military occupation, everyone starts out a soldier.
My view of the citizen of a PFO settlement. You may be able to craft a level 300 helmet, but if you can't minimally help defend your settlement from getting sacked, you are useless in that time of need.
In another thread the question was "How do you see your role?" or something like that.
The role that The UnNamed Company will be playing is that we are a PvP oriented company. We will perform acts of banditry as our primary fund raising activity. We will perform Assassinations to unsettle our asversaries or to fulfill contracts and we will use our own Assassins to hone their skills against high priority targets, just because..... It's fun. We will take bounties ( new for us) to continue to hone our PFO PvP skills. We will take mercenary contracts to wage war for our employer's interests.
When the time comes, if some outside entity comes, our company will meet wolves with wolves. No member of our company will ever be considered a lamb for the slaughter.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think a lot of us are trying to understand what Ryan is telling us, and we're adapting. Hopefully, the result is a community that is more cohesive, and more committed to a common purpose.
A big part of the reason EVE's experience is toxic for many players is that CCP thinks that allowing the toxicity is what sustains the meaningful nature of the virtual world. I think they're wrong - they've thrown the baby out with the bathwater. I think we can have a much stronger, more friendly social experience where being a jerk is simply not tolerated without breaking the things that make people care so passionately about the game and the game world and their characters that it becomes more meaningful than real life.
Regardless, I don't think the "wake up call" is that PFO is going to be like EVE...
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Goblin Squad Member
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Regardless, I don't think the "wake up call" is that PFO is going to be like EVE...
It will be EvE with less high sec griefing. The map in PFO in minuscule in comparison to EvE, very easy for a massive Zerg company to come in and roll through, what 15 settlement hexes?? Maybe a few dozen a few months after OE??
Any settlement that does not out itself in a good position to defend itself with well trained (skilled) and practiced PvP'ers will be the first to fall.
Ryan said to unify and prepare to face wolves. Some if you are still clinging onto the idea that this will not be EvE. Maybe you will find out you are right. It may turn out to be much more brutal than EvE. Not because of the mechanics, but because of the 180 degree mindset difference that you are trying to hold into.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think a lot of us are trying to understand what Ryan is telling us, and we're adapting. Hopefully, the result is a community that is more cohesive, and more committed to a common purpose.
A big part of the reason EVE's experience is toxic for many players is that CCP thinks that allowing the toxicity is what sustains the meaningful nature of the virtual world. I think they're wrong - they've thrown the baby out with the bathwater. I think we can have a much stronger, more friendly social experience where being a jerk is simply not tolerated without breaking the things that make people care so passionately about the game and the game world and their characters that it becomes more meaningful than real life.Regardless, I don't think the "wake up call" is that PFO is going to be like EVE...
Eve actually works but it is important to remember that a lot of the "toxic" aspects of EVE totally lack any roleplay component.
Almost the entire purpose in hi-sec PvP ganking in Eve is to destroy extremely valuable ships to upset the real world player that has bought/owns it. There is often minimal "in game" benefit, if you get loot that is just a bonus, the intention is to upset a real person and the more upset that person gets the more successful you have been.
Ganker types will often deny this is true, but if you talk to them long enough you find most lose ISK on their ganking character and run alternate trading/mining characters to finance the PvP ganking.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Right. He means Settlement/kingdom level. Not PlayerbaseBigtown.
Not sure if he didn't. I'm curious to know how may players he anticipates being in EE, just before OE?
He predicted that some of the EE settlement will get rolled, pretty early on in OE.
He can say all he wants about a settlement's PVP window being quite small if they set it at 1 hour per day. If someone throws 5,000 "wolves" at its defenses during that hour, I bet it falls.... That is if the server doesn't crash, LOL!!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Regardless, I don't think the "wake up call" is that PFO is going to be like EVE...It will be EvE with less high sec griefing. The map in PFO in minuscule in comparison to EvE, very easy for a massive Zerg company to come in and roll through, what 15 settlement hexes?? Maybe a few dozen a few months after OE??
Any settlement that does not out itself in a good position to defend itself with well trained (skilled) and practiced PvP'ers will be the first to fall.
Ryan said to unify and prepare to face wolves. Some if you are still clinging onto the idea that this will not be EvE. Maybe you will find out you are right. It may turn out to be much more brutal than EvE. Not because of the mechanics, but because of the 180 degree mindset difference that you are trying to hold into.
Packing 28000 players onto one map, that's the base assumption of population from the early blogs, for month 1 of OE. So, yeah, lotta wolves , inc.
My Idea: agree to have our settlements around the edges of the map, so they can grow to the maximum possible strength and usefulness before OE, and , we use a few sites in the middle of the map as practice settlements, to constantly fight over.
When OE starts, we all have our own settlements, with good trainers, and strong defenses, and our troops are honed to a fine edge. We know who has what skills, and have gotten our licks in on each other, so we can work together, when needed, with minimal friction.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Eve actually works but it is important to remember that a lot of the "toxic" aspects of EVE totally lack any roleplay component.
Almost the entire purpose in hi-sec PvP ganking in Eve is to destroy extremely valuable ships to upset the real world player that has bought/owns it. There is often minimal "in game" benefit, if you get loot that is just a bonus, the intention is to upset a real person and the more upset that person gets the more successful you have been.
Ganker types will often deny this is true, but if you talk to them long enough you find most lose ISK on their ganking character and run alternate trading/mining characters to finance the PvP ganking.
Not necessarily true... Some pirate corporations require a number of PVP kills under your belt, before they will consider your application for entry.
I believe Anarchy Unleased, which is a pvp training school, also requires at least one kill to enter.
I have belonged to pirate alliances that required a negative security status. Which used to be easy enough to gain, just do some ninja looting or ore theft and you'll break into the negatives.
CCP did quite a bit to limit suicide ganking, especially in high sec, with the new barge designs. But, the High sec Care Bear miners are so greedy, they use the high ore capacity models instead of the high tank models, or they don't even fit the tank on their ships, and they go "pop" easy!! That is their fault... train a few shield, armor, hull skills instead of just min/maxing mining skills and they'd stand a chance.
On that last point.... If the merchant / gatherer / crafter thinks to just min/max their money making skills and put nothing into survival or combat, it is their own fault if they fall easy prey an attacker.
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Goblin Squad Member
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My Idea: agree to have our settlements around the edges of the map, so they can grow to the maximum possible strength and usefulness before OE, and , we use a few sites in the middle of the map as practice settlements, to constantly fight over.
When OE starts, we all have our own settlements, with good trainers, and strong defenses, and our troops are honed to a fine edge. We know who has what skills, and have gotten our licks in on each other, so we can work together, when needed, with minimal friction.
Finally, a useful idea has been spawned....
The "practice settlement" can be build to minimal standards, and other settlements can take turns (1 week each) in assaulting the largely, NPC manned settlement.
When a settlement has had their turn at it, they kick in the needed resources to repair it, as a fee. If anyone assaults the settlement and captures it.....well, everyone else will now have a nice target to go after, won't they?
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Areks, someone just pointed this out to me. I have to say, it completely changes my entire perception of what's been going on, and makes me feel quite foolish for not having seen what was right in front of my face this whole time.
Alias of Obakararuir.
... That's not really a suprise or at least it shouldn't be. With the tabs that you keep on these forums... plus I could have sworn that I told you when I left TSV.
Solemor knew. Blaeringr knew. Andius knew. It's a good practice to check the aliases on most posts.
I don't know how it changed your entire perception of "what's been going on" but I don't feel I've been hiding a secret identity or anything.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Pagan. You're comparing apples and oranges. The topic was past leadership experience, not casual ventures into titles we're using to pass the time.
@Avena. Thank you for bringing up this topic. It's brought a lot of light to issues that needed to be discussed and help solidify our relations with some like minded groups. TEO would be glad to meet with you and discuss this proposal in a more personal setting such as a Teamspeak meeting or on Steam. We can make arrangements with you through PMs on these forums, you can register as an ambassador on our boards, or we could register at whatever boards you are using. We are interested in your proposal but I do not feel it it is productive to continue discussing it with groups who clearly wish to see it fail.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Areks, someone just pointed this out to me. I have to say, it completely changes my entire perception of what's been going on, and makes me feel quite foolish for not having seen what was right in front of my face this whole time.
Alias of Obakararuir.... That's not really a suprise or at least it shouldn't be. With the tabs that you keep on these forums... plus I could have sworn that I told you when I left TSV.
Solemor knew. Blaeringr knew. Andius knew. It's a good practice to check the aliases on most posts.
I don't know how it changed your entire perception of "what's been going on" but I don't feel I've been hiding a secret identity or anything.
I was confused as well. It totally was not news for Pax. We knew from the day of the application. We did our homework just to be thorough, but honestly how hard it is to check an alias page?
Check Dark Horse, he is Ravening. Just for example. It is like kindergarden for super secret agents.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I pride myself on admitting - publicly even - when I'm wrong. It's one of the things from Ryan's advice that actually made me feel more confident about having a positive impact as a Settlement leader. The Seventh Veil's reinvigorated alliance with The Empyrean Order is another - they have skills we don't and hopefully together we'll be able to resist the organizations that come to PFO looking to stir up trouble...
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Goblin Squad Member
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I pride myself on admitting - publicly even - when I'm wrong. It's one of the things from Ryan's advice that actually made me feel more confident about having a positive impact as a Settlement leader. The Seventh Veil's reinvigorated alliance with The Empyrean Order is another - they have skills we don't and hopefully together we'll be able to resist the organizations that come to PFO looking to stir up trouble...
Like I stated earlier, I do think TEO and TSV joining forces is a brilliant move towards mutual ends.
I hope you did not take that as sarcasm, because that aspect was indeed an olive branch and and honest assessment.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Nihimon - And to think, all this time I thought you were holding a grudge.
I don't hold grudges. Oddly enough, it's often the people that really rub me the wrong way at first that I end up developing a deep and abiding respect for.
Solemor is one of those people. I think I discounted his experience in EVE and resisted his plans because, deep down, I didn't want to have to operate at that level. I realize now that I was wrong, and I am, as I've said, sincerely grateful that he and Andius are good friends, and that we'll have the benefit of his experience after all.
Blaeringr is another. If I'm being honest with myself, I have to admit that I probably provoked him early on by being condescending - I'm well aware that it is one of my more significant flaws.
Perhaps some day I'll develop a sincere respect for Bluddwolf or Xeen.
But no, I don't hold grudges, and I'm quick to respond positively to overtures of reconciliation.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Nihimon - And to think, all this time I thought you were holding a grudge.I don't hold grudges. Oddly enough, it's often the people that really rub me the wrong way at first that I end up developing a deep and abiding respect for.... Blaeringr is another. If I'm being honest with myself, I have to admit that I probably provoked him early on by being condescending - I'm well aware that it is one of my more significant flaws.
Blaeringr amuses me in much the same way Andius does. Since we are on the subject of flaws and you were so kind to truthful disclose one of your faults... if you hadn't already guessed it... I'm short tempered. Not as much as you might think on here, tho. You've got to be careful because you do not know when your own words will be used against you. Of this crime, I've been guilty a few times.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The issue here is if you are willing to become wolves?
No, because I play games to get away from being a wolf--or perhaps wolf-hunter--all day long. I'm now looking to see what else I'm going to find to enjoy myself in PFO.
Right now, it looks as if I'll be spending a lot of time praying my home settlement doesn't get razed to the ground, thus costing me access to whatever higher-level abilities I trained there. I'll assist in its defence, but I've no illusions about my effectiveness in that arena.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Perhaps some day I'll develop a sincere respect for Bluddwolf or Xeen.But no, I don't hold grudges, and I'm quick to respond positively to overtures of reconciliation.
I won't speak for Xeen. I am not responsible for him.
I'm not quite sure what I have to reconcile either. If this is about Realmwalker, I was not rude to him, just brutally honest. When some says "If it isn't this, it is a deal breaker" I take them at their word. Not one thing I said to him about PFO was false. That was even before Ryan's recent posts.
I will stand by what I said, this game is far more PvP oriented then you or others led him to believe. To be fair, it is even more so now, after Ryan's posts. Perhaps you would have different advise for him today?
This game is not going to be a good fit for anyone that is very adverse to an Open World PvP MMO. It's evolution in just this passed week, if we are to believe Ryan's warnings, is nothing short of a 180 degree change from what many people had thought of PFO.
Even my own concepts of settlement affiliation, alignment and even some activities I had planned may require a near complete revamp of thinking and implementation.
The one thing I won't have to change is that I've always known that my focus in PFO was going to be in pvp combat.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Bluddwolf
You could be right Bludd. This gives me hope that it will be pretty much what I have been thinking it would all along though.
There are things that CCP permits in EVE that I have no intention of permitting in Pathfinder Online.
Scams are a great example. I'm just not interested in a game where if you trick someone into clicking the wrong button, or trick them into a deal that no rational person would take, or if you exploit UI problems (like decimal numbers that are easy to confuse), the policy is "caveat emptor". I'd rather have a policy that says "if we catch you scamming others, we'll ban your ass". I'd rather have a small number of people b%~!~ at me at how unfair we are for not letting them screw people than have a large number of people afraid to engage interactively for fear that they're a mouseclick away from a scam.
Alliance dissolution is another. There is zero chance I'd tolerate the kind of shenanigans that allowed one person to disband Band of Brothers and Goonswarm's Alliances; partly those happened because the tools provided to players to manage those Alliances are incredibly hard to use, partly because there's no check or balance system in place to ensure that one person can't screw thousands, and mostly because CCP as a policy wouldn't step in and fix the damage done by one rogue individual. Hopefully we can fix the first and second problems by better design and never have to deal with the third, but if we did, I would not sit back and say "should've been more careful, yo!"
Suicide ganking is a marginal case. There's a legit tactic there (you can make a lot of money suicide ganking if your crew is configured to loot the wreckage), but it's wrapped in an envelope of griefing (ganking just to piss off other players). The biggest problem I see is that it's possible to suicide gank a meaningful portion of experienced players without committing any real money to the effort. If it cost something to make a ganker, there'd be a lot less ganking for grief. Again, that's a policy of CCP's not a game mechanic per se.
I don't want a group of people to name their characters incredibly offensive things, and deluge the chat channels with abusive language, poking at people until they snap from anger or frustration.
I don't want a character or group of characters who have not brought the problem down on their own heads via in game activities to have to fear that they'll be harassed by larger, more experienced teams of players "just for the lulz" wherever they go in the game.
A big part of the reason EVE's experience is toxic for many players is that CCP thinks that allowing the toxicity is what sustains the meaningful nature of the virtual world. I think they're wrong - they've thrown the baby out with the bathwater. I think we can have a much stronger, more friendly social experience where being a jerk is simply not tolerated without breaking the things that make people care so passionately about the game and the game world and their characters that it becomes more meaningful than real life.
That.