Wild Shape, Tongues, and Gold Nodules


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

A druid is wild shaped as a baboon and has a gold nodule ioun stone (Common) active. She wishes to activate a wand of cure light wounds that someone has just passed to her. The wand's command word is "gargle-hope-cheese".

Wild Shape:
A druid loses her ability to speak while in animal form because she is limited to the sounds that a normal, untrained animal can make, but she can communicate normally with other animals of the same general grouping as her new form.

Tongues:
This spell grants the creature touched the ability to speak and understand the language of any intelligent creature, whether it is a racial tongue or a regional dialect. The subject can speak only one language at a time, although it may be able to understand several languages.

Ioun Stone, Gold Nodule:
This stone grants you the ability to comprehend, speak, read, and write a single language.
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS
...Spells - tongues...

Spell Trigger:
No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Spell trigger items can be used by anyone whose class can cast the corresponding spell.

So, here are my questions:

  • Does the ioun stone grant her the ability to speak Common while in this form?
  • Can she activate the wand?
  • Could she activate a command word item with that same command word?
  • Does the language of the ioun stone matter? What if the ioun stone was for Orcish?


The Tongues spell description says the creature can speak the language of any intelligent creature.

Thus, if "gargle-hope-cheese" is part of the language of any intelligent creature, any creature affected by the tongues spell can speak it.


If you get a GM who interprets "creatures who can't speak" as a wildshaped druid, use share languages, which explicitly lets animals speak.

Liberty's Edge

Ah, I see. So, table variant potential with the gold nodule item, but Share Languages covers it. I suppose that would also work if the druid cast "Share Language" on herself, and *then* wild shaped.


Share language allows creatures to understand language, it doesn't grant them the physical capability to speak. It is useless for a wild shaped Druid, who theoretically already has the mental capacity to understand his own languages.

Share language wrote:
The target must have the physical capacity to articulate sounds, make gestures, or engage in whatever other method speakers of the language use to communicate with each other in order to actually converse


Interesting, it never crossed my mind that Tongues would let a creature speak while wildshaped. Sure, there is a possibility of table variation, but still, this will be handy.


Jay the Madman wrote:

Share language allows creatures to understand language, it doesn't grant them the physical capability to speak. It is useless for a wild shaped Druid, who theoretically already has the mental capacity to understand his own languages.

Share language wrote:
The target must have the physical capacity to articulate sounds, make gestures, or engage in whatever other method speakers of the language use to communicate with each other in order to actually converse

As you quoted, the ability to articulate sounds is all that is required for the spell to allow communication.


Ximen Bao wrote:
Jay the Madman wrote:

Share language allows creatures to understand language, it doesn't grant them the physical capability to speak. It is useless for a wild shaped Druid, who theoretically already has the mental capacity to understand his own languages.

Share language wrote:
The target must have the physical capacity to articulate sounds, make gestures, or engage in whatever other method speakers of the language use to communicate with each other in order to actually converse
As you quoted, the ability to articulate sounds is all that is required for the spell to allow communication.

Ah, that's even better because of the 24 hour duration. There's nothing stopping you from casting 'share language' on yourself, right?


To my knowledge, no.

However, nothing stops a GM who doesn't like it from quibbling of the semantics of "articulate" which means both to speak clearly and to make a speech sound. Given the context "articulate sound" I think it's the latter, but YMMV.


Admittedly, it is an interpretation.

My group uses this interpretation. One reason is that we don't think the ability to make squeaks and grunts is sufficient for speech, regardless of the mental capacity of the squeaker. Another point against using Share Language in that way is that essentially bypasses the feat Wild Speech for the cost of a single 1st level spell, which we view as unbalanced.


Jay the Madman wrote:

Admittedly, it is an interpretation.

My group uses this interpretation. One reason is that we don't think the ability to make squeaks and grunts is sufficient for speech, regardless of the mental capacity of the squeaker. Another point against using Share Language in that way is that essentially bypasses the feat Wild Speech for the cost of a single 1st level spell, which we view as unbalanced.

Well, Wild Speech does more than just let a druid speak while Wildshaped.

Personally, I just want it to work because I want a non-druid to have some method of speaking while in animal form. It constantly frustrates me that only druids get to benefit from the Wildshape feats.

Liberty's Edge

Well, table variation is expected with these types of spells. Looking this over, I believe that

Quote:
The target must have the physical capacity to articulate sounds, make gestures, or engage in whatever other method speakers of the language use to communicate with each other in order to actually converse

was intended to prevent a gelatinous oozes from speaking (doesn't make sounds), or a humanoid communicating in a chameleon's skin-tone language. There *are* real-world examples of dogs, cats, and birds making noises very similar to human speech. A bit of magical knowledge and enhanced control, and I could see those animals being able to speak clearly.

Silver Crusade

This doesn't answer OP's question, but it just occurred to me: Rather than buying myself a 5000gp Gold Nodule and hoping my GM will allow it to help me speak without a feat while wild-shaped, I can just buy a bunch of 1000gp Flawed Gold Nodules attuned to my favorite wild-shape's language and pass them out to the other members of the party.

Sczarni

This is obviously one of things that you should cooperate with your DM on. I don't see much ruling on this kind of thing as there is only but so much to work with RAW-wise.
My Opinion:

1.) I would have to go with Yes. I don't see why not... In most of your questions, specific ruling would trump general ruling. These all seem pretty specific.

2.) A druid cannot normally activate an item because it melds into her form along with everything else. That is the only potential barrier I see. In this case, you would probably need to drop the wand, shape into a form that can legitimately hold it, pick it up, and use it as needed. Wild Speech or that Stone would work fine as long as the wand isn't melded into your form somehow.

3.) Absolutely! As long as it isn't melded into your form you're golden. Things that are constantly active, like your Ioun Stone, don't require anything special as they continue to function as normal. Anything that requires activation, cannot be activated unless removed or dropped, take your wildshape, then re-use the item as preferred.

4.) The language should matter, because the trigger word, much like a speech locked item in the modern world, or the elven Doors of Durin in Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Rings, requires the same spoken language along with the correct wording. Again, it seems like most of this ruling is up to your DM.

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