Lance and Power Attack clarified, but what about standard STR bonus?

[VerdantSF]

I recently noticed the following in the FAQ:

Pathfinder Design Team, 05/24/13 wrote:

Quote:

Power Attack: If I am using a two-handed weapon with one hand (such as a lance while mounted), do still I get the +50% damage for using a two-handed weapon?

Yes.

In this case, lances wielded in one hand, while mounted, are given the same bonuses as lances wielded in two hands when not mounted. Is there an official ruling regarding STR bonuses? Do lances give a +50% STR bonus damage wielded in one hand, while mounted? I'm not referring to Charge (the 2x bonus), but rather the bonus given to all weapons from Strength. Lances seem to fall in a gray area, as the clarification with Power Attack demonstrates.

[Aioran]

The language is different, it's based on the number of hands you use.

Strength Applies to: wrote:

Damage rolls when using a melee weapon or a thrown weapon, including a sling. (Exceptions: Off-hand attacks receive only half the character’s Strength bonus, while two-handed attacks receive 1–1/2 times the Strength bonus.

Since it's not a two-handed attack you don't get 1.5x is my understanding.

[VerdantSF]

That's what I thought, but I wanted to make sure. Thanks!

[Nefreet]

That's... hrmm. Well. That sucks.

*starts taking an eraser to his Barbarian's character sheet*

[Shar Tahl]

It is not based on the category the weapon is in, it is based on the weapon actually being used with two hands. The reverse demonstrates this, as a long sword is in the one-handed category but gets 1.5x strength when used with two hands. Likewise, you can't use sized down two handed weapons to get 1.5 strength bonus with duel wield. What matters is how many hands are on it.

[Kazaan]

Gonna have to play Devil's Advocate here.

From Equipment:

PRD wrote:

One-Handed: A one-handed weapon can be used in either the primary hand or the off hand. Add the wielder's Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with a one-handed weapon if it's used in the primary hand, or 1/2 his Strength bonus if it's used in the off hand. If a one-handed weapon is wielded with two hands during melee combat, add 1-1/2 times the character's Strength bonus to damage rolls.

Two-Handed: Two hands are required to use a two-handed melee weapon effectively. Apply 1-1/2 times the character's Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with such a weapon.

One-handed weapons specifically call out that, while they deal 1x Str bonus to damage when wielded one-handed, wielding it in two hands exceptionally allows one to deal 1.5x Str bonus to damage. By contrast, the Two-handed Weapon write-up simply states two things: 1) Two-Handed Weapons require two hands to wield (ie. you can't make an attack if both hands aren't on the weapon) and 2) you get 1.5x Str bonus to damage with them. The Lance has a special rule that lets you disregard the first part of the Two-Handed Weapon rules, but holds no phrasing to override the second. Remember that Lance isn't "wielded as a one-handed weapon" as with many other abilities allowing one to wield two-handed weapons in one hand. It is simply "wielded in one hand", but it's still a two-handed weapon in all respects. In other words, using two hands to "boost" the strength bonus to damage only works for one-handed weapons while two-handed weapons default is 1.5x Str to damage and no rule exists that specifies to reduce that value in the exception condition of wielding a two-handed weapon in one hand.

This means Lance and any hypothetical new 2-h weapon that also can be "wielded in one hand" in certain circumstances get 1.5x str to damage even when meeting the circumstance to be wielded in only one hand however, regarding the recent FAQ regarding two-handed weapon interaction with two-weapon fighting, an attack with a Lance, even wielded in one hand, eats both an iterative and a potential off-hand attack which effectively prohibits one from dual-wielding lances one-handed while mounted.