Celestial Armor is specifically listed as being a light armor, despite being chainmail. So it follows all the rules of being a light armor. You only need light armor proficiency to wear it.
Noqual armor isn't the same. Heavy noqual armor is still heavy armor, which means you still have to have heavy armor proficiency, or suffer the non-proficiency penalties.
What it does mean is that for purposes of encumbrance, speed reductions, class abilities that are sometimes prevented by certain armor types, etc. consider it a medium armor. For instance, a barbarian wearing heavy noqual armor could still benefit from his speed increase, despite wearing heavy armor, because noqual heavy armor is considered medium for purposes of limitations.
Spell failure has nothing to do with spell cast on you, just ones that you cast yourself while in the armor. Spell resistance would keep an ally from buffing you, but that's another thing altogether.
As far as I can see from "This +3 chainmail is so fine and light that it can be worn under normal clothing without betraying its presence. It has a maximum Dexterity bonus of +8, an armor check penalty of –2, and an arcane spell failure chance of 15%. It is considered light armor and allows the wearer to use fly on command (as the spell) once per day." There is nothing in there that specifies it as a light armor. It only says that it is considered light armor. When you look at the quote from the noqual armor that one allso says that it is considered as one step lighter. Witch means that a heavy armor would be considered medium.
Celestial armor says, "considered light armor" period. End of story.
Noqual armor says, "treated as one category lighter than normal for the purposes of movement and other limitations." It specifically spells out those situations where it's treated as one category lighter, to whit: the purposes of movement and other limitations.
This seems pretty clear to me. One, celestial armor, is considered light armor period. The other, noqual armor, is considered one category lighter only with regards to movement and other limitations.
There is an official ruling on it. Lord Pendragon explained it perfectly.
(That said, I'd houserule that it's just a category lighter period. I find that rule incredibly nitpicky.)
You allso have the celestial plate armor. That one allso says threated as medium armor. But it is a sturdier version of the celestial armour so it would be made of the same material. Since the celestial armor is light. that one should be medium. And it uses the same synonym as the noqual. So ?? Would be nice if we could have an official ruling on this.
Where can I find the listing for "celestial plate armor"? I can't find it in the pfsrd to compare the wording.
I think it's just as clear as Pendragon suggests.
In what book is the material Noqual listed?
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See
NoqualNoqual looks almost like a pale green crystal to the untrained eye, but can be worked as iron despite its appearance. It is associated with abjuration magic, charity, and envy. Noqual is light—half as heavy as iron, yet just as strong. More importantly, noqual is strangely resistant to magic. An object made of noqual gains a +4 bonus on any saving throw made against a magical source. Creating a magic item that incorporates any amount of noqual into it increases the price of creation by 5,000 gp, as costly reagents and alchemical supplies must be used to treat the metal during the process.
Weapons made of noqual weigh half as much as normal, and gain a +1 enhancement bonus on damage rolls against constructs and undead created by feats or spells. Noqual armor weighs half as much as other armors of its type, and is treated as one category lighter than normal for the purposes of movement and other limitations (light armor is still treated as light armor, though). The armor’s maximum Dexterity bonus increases by 2, and armor check penalties are reduced by 3. The armor’s spell failure chance increases by 20% and applies to all magic cast while wearing the armor, regardless of the magic’s source or class abilities possessed by the wearer. The wearer of a suit of noqual armor gains a +2 resistance bonus on all saving throws against spells and spell-like abilities.
Noqual has 30 hit points per inch of thickness and hardness 10. Noqual ore is worth 50 gp per pound. A suit of noqual light armor costs +4,000 gp, medium armor +8,000 gp, and heavy armor +12,000 gp. A shield costs +2,000 gp, and a weapon or other item +500 gp.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Pathfinder Noqual
Noqual armor weighs half as much as other armors of its type, and is treated as one category lighter than normal for the purposes of movement and other limitations (light armor is still treated as light armor, though). The armor’s maximum Dexterity bonus increases by 2, and armor check penalties are reduced by 3. The armor’s spell failure chance increases by 20% and applies to all magic cast while wearing the armor, regardless of the magic’s source or class abilities possessed by the wearer. The wearer of a suit of noqual armor gains a +2 resistance bonus on all saving throws against spells and spell-like abilities.
Noqual has 30 hit points per inch of thickness and hardness 10. Noqual ore is worth 50 gp per pound. A suit of noqual light armor costs +4,000 gp, medium armor +8,000 gp, and heavy armor +12,000 gp. A shield costs
+2,000 gp, and a weapon or other item +500 gp.
Pathfinder AP #61 Shards of Sin.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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The Shattered Star AP is not 3.5, and Shards of Sin has the full Pathfinder update of Noqual.
Ah, I misread your post as from AP #14 only and missed you too were quoting from Shattered Star as well.
THen I read KainPen saying it wasn't updated and wanted to correct him. :-)
Hrmmm. Based on what I'm reading I think you will still need the armor proficiency. So a noqual breastplate may encumber you as a light armor, but without the proficiency of medium armors you would still take the ACP penalty to your rolls.
Of course, Noqual reduces the ACP by 3 from -4 (for breastplate) to -1. The Armor Expert trait or magical enhancement/masterwork version of the armor would further reduce it by 1 (as Mithral ACP reduction stacks with magical enhancement ACP reduction). Ergo, even if you don't have medium armor proficiency the penalties you would take would be 0.
Celestial Armor is "considered light armor." There are no qualifiers, so you can use it with Light Armor Proficiency. It is also a unique armor. You can't really use it to compare to other armors because there are no other armors like it (the very definition of unique).
Celestial Plate Armor is a 3.5 item. It's not legal for PFS (not sure if that's relevant to you).
The better comparator here is Mithral, since it, like Noqual, is a special material that lessens penalties:
Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light. This decrease does not apply to proficiency in wearing the armor.
Noqual armor weighs half as much as other armors of its type, and is treated as one category lighter than normal for the purposes of movement and other limitations (light armor is still treated as light armor, though).
I see two ways of looking at it:
1) Since Noqual doesn't have the same explicit text clarifying the need for proficiency, you can consider proficiency to be one of the limitations it overcomes.2) Since Mithral sets the precedent that "other limitations" does not include proficiency, Noqual should be treated the same.
When in doubt, you're better off going with the more conservative route.
So our group recently got hold of some noqual, and re-reading the description in this thread, I have a question.
The +20% spell failure. I'd originally believed that only applied to arcane magic. Is that correct, or does it apply to divine magic as well?
The +20% spell failure. I'd originally believed that only applied to arcane magic. Is that correct, or does it apply to divine magic as well?
Looks like it applies to both. No idea why it would though.
The armor’s spell failure chance increases by 20% and applies to all magic cast while wearing the armor, regardless of the magic’s source or class abilities possessed by the wearer.
The +20% spell failure. I'd originally believed that only applied to arcane magic. Is that correct, or does it apply to divine magic as well?Looks like it applies to both. No idea why it would though.
The armor’s spell failure chance increases by 20% and applies to all magic cast while wearing the armor, regardless of the magic’s source or class abilities possessed by the wearer.
Most likely because noqual inhibits(and is resistant to) all magic, regardless of source - arcane/divine.
Noqual is from the campaign setting line, there aren't that many official rulings from outside the rulebook line - to my knowledge.
It gives max Dex +2 (like mithral)
it gives ACP -3 (like mithral)
I would rule it still requires the same armor proficiency as normal (like mithral).
