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I tried searching for a GM prep thread for this adventure, but didn't find one. Please let me know if I just missed it.
I'm sure I'll have lots of questions as I go through this in detail. I've already read it once, now going back and highlighting important details and making notes in the margins to be REALLY ready to run it at GenCon. For now, I just have one fairly simple question.
How much money is area A4 worth at tier 6-7? Page 10 says the players get 941 gp if they recover the treasure, but the treasure worksheet at the end says it's only 691. The higher number makes the math add up to what's on the chronicle sheet as the maximum possible gold, so I'm guessing that's accurate. Since I'm not sure how the math is worked out for treasure, I'm not sure how much they're supposed to get for finding the
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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Hey Fromper! I did a zero slot of this for friends (for no credit) as well as GMing this only a single time at PaizoCon (because we weren't filling all the Bonekeep slots), but am slated to GM it for almost every slot at GenCon, so I've mulled over it quite a bit.
Here are some things I've tried to make it feel extra special or cool.
1. Take the blurb about "this scenario is especially difficult" and write or print it out onto a sheet. That way the players can have a physical reminder that they don't have to stay if the going gets tough. I was also spitballing the idea of printing it out with spaces at the bottom for reporting info (number, faction, etc), and making it look more like a death waiver; "By entering your information here you understand all the risks and accept the challenges that lie within Bonekeep!"
2. Draw or print some item cards. I drew out cards for all the items PCs can loot in Bonekeep. This included the three nexus stones and the shard. The reason for this is two fold. First, it lets them know how much swag they have so far. They see that they have five cards, but there's still twenty in the stack, and they want more. Second, by visualizing the nexus stones, it makes them more pervasive in the players mind. They're thinking about them, pondering their purpose, rather than forgetting about them or what they might do. Also, when I sketched the three stones, I made them all look different. I had one with four sides, one with five, and one with six. Then, when I described room 6, I noted that the three slots matched these sides. This makes it more obvious as to what the players need to do (and also makes the fight in room 6 more likely to happen!).
3. Use the most brutal tactics you can. Don't be a jerk, but give players the challenge they expect. If your table walks away without a death, don't worry -- you haven't failed, but they should be talking about how relieved they were that the dice gods were in their favor. This should be the most difficult game at the convention (#4-26 and the special excluded).
4. Players are going to want to rest here. That's fine, because I doubt that the rats of Bonekeep aren't going to do a walk-through every few hours since those first Pathfinders showed up. If PCs rest outside Bonekeep - I likely won't mess with them. EDIT: I've been informed, players cannot do this. Inside, however, I'll have a rat demon from 7 come across them while patrolling, and report back to Korsan. How rooms 7, 8, and 9 react to these slumbering intruders will depend on how nice I'm feeling. And since it is Bonekeep - it won't be that nice.
Some more detailed stuff, room by room.
1. Frankly, this is the worst room in the place. Caryatid columns are like the new harpies of PFS it feels. Fights with them eat up time and weapons, and in Bonekeep, that's a serious problem. Aside from adding your own exciting descriptions here and doing very basic things like flanking, there's not much you can do to make this fight exciting. One thing I did was decide that anyone more then 10 feet back (off the map) was too high up to see into the room at their angle. This made players move into the room, which spiced things up a bit. But anyone gearing up for Bonekeep is just going to treat this fight as it's intended -- a speed bump.
2. This room has some great mechanics. Remember the basics here: movement speed is messed up on ice, the statue heals the enemies and damages the players, and that one of the undead has a very cool crown. Also, I treated these undead as intelligent fighters. I had them fight defensively, use flanking, or even throw down their shields do increase the damage on their attacks. They also have vital strike, and an after-death effect so don't forget that.
3. In the 6-7 subtier, this might be my favorite room. I have a couple of the oozes behind the well and one directly in front. When spotted by players, I have the one visible ooze act like a carefree child. It seems to be 'chasing' the magical sheen that plays across the top of the well. One group tossed dancing lights above it, and so I had it stretch up, like a cat trying to bat at a toy. Once combat starts, definitely have all three bombard one target with their free action mind blasts (that recharge like a standard breath weapon), followed by three phantasmal killers. Gross. The 3-4 subtier has some boring oozes, so I don't know what to do with them except blob over people.
4. Pretty standard room. Note the sequencing of the traps here, especially in the 6-7 tier. While not usually enough to kill anyone, you might get an unlucky AC. Also, note the rounds/minutes they'll need to spend healing up afterwards as it relates to any minute based buffs your players will likely have up.
5. Excellent room. I like that there's a pseudo-diplomacy moment for the savvy player, but in the end they won't (most likely) have the resources to comply with the elemental's request, so the fight is bound to happen. As it should be in Bonekeep. Again, we've got smart monsters here. If they fight defensively, their AC can actually become quite impressive. The shift effect of these creatures is very cool, so be sure to use it to their advantage.
Air: The concealment adds insult to injury, and you can five foot fly into the air to get a +1 to hit against most PCs
Earth: Easily my favorite. They can five foot into the ground to get cover, or simply burrow as a double move and end up in room 4 to flank unfortunate PCs in the hallway, creating a very effective kill-box. The also get increased AC.
Fire: note the burn effect, and the increased AC.
Water: The push effect can be great for flooding PCs out of place, thus forcing them to waste actions getting back into position. Actions that provoke in the 6-7 tier as the creatures have reach. Also, increased AC.
If you do this room right, the fight can be quite in depth, as well as deadly -- especially in the 6-7 tier.
6. Another great room -- if the players pop in the three stones. First, correct the statblock for the mastiff and note that they have a tail slap attack as well. Second, have combat start with their bay and note that panicked creatures "other than running away from the source, their paths are random." Now check out that negative energy beam and pray that you're lucky enough to send some screaming scared PC through it and into oblivion! If it doesn't, have your mastiffs bull rush PCs back and forth through it. Note that if they take damage on the AOO they provoke from the attempt, it makes the attempt much harder (following standard rules for combat maneuvers), so you might do better to have your doggies move around, provoke those AOOs, then bull rush when the PCs have no AOOs left. Like I said earlier - be brutal. Also note the random lightning arc effect that is happening during this fight in the higher tier. One the fight is over, remember that the PCs have to destroy that crystal to get their artifact. So if they don't, don't give it to them.
7. This room can be as mean as you want it to be. Your rat demons could just summon swarm after swarm if you wanted, while hanging out in the back of the room. But that's pretty lame, so have them open with a swarm and then probably just teleport to surround the casters in the back. Kind of a jerk strategy but hey, it's Bonekeep. Also, don't forget about all the dire rats. They're great meat shields that should give your demons enough time to get their summons off. Also, I felt free to abuse their teleport abilities when I ran combat here. They had a cleric that was out channeling the damage being dealt. Steal combat maneuver to get the holy symbol, pass it to another demon, demon teleports away. No more healing. Finally, try to infect as many players as possible. Spread that diseased love around and remember their aura of sickness and accelerated plague ability.
8 and 9. Chances are no one is going to get this far in your time slot. If they do, these two rooms are mechanically difficult enough to prove challenging. It gets worse if a rat demon from 7 teleported back and alerted Korsan of the PCs presence here, as it will give her some time to prepare. Remember all of Korsan's buffs, the rat demon's summon, and the golem/object tricks. I'd have the construct in 8 fight as defensively as possible, trying to buy Korsan as much time as possible to prepare. This also means that there might be several rat swarms waiting for the PCs when combat starts. Speak of - once the fighting in 8 stops, don't allow your PCs the standard undefined amount of time to recuperate. Korsan is diving into combat on round 10. So that might be right when the PCs are out of position healing, looting, or talking about retreating. Be ruthless.
Anyway, that's all for now. As for the loot from room 4, use the 941 if it makes the math add up. It's likely just legacy information on the worksheet from when that dagger was something else.
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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<snip> 4. Players are going to want to rest here. That's fine, because I doubt that the rats of Bonekeep aren't going to do a walk-through every few hours since those first Pathfinders showed up. If PCs rest outside Bonekeep - I likely won't mess with them <snip>
No-can-do.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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<snip> 4. Players are going to want to rest here. That's fine, because I doubt that the rats of Bonekeep aren't going to do a walk-through every few hours since those first Pathfinders showed up. If PCs rest outside Bonekeep - I likely won't mess with them <snip>No-can-do.
Ho ho! Thanks Drogon, Bonekeep is even harder than I thought. Excellent.
I'd print that Brock quote off for player reference, Fromper.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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8 and 9. Chances are no one is going to get this far in your time slot. If they do, these two rooms are mechanically difficult enough to prove challenging. It gets worse if a rat demon from 7 teleported back and alerted Korsan of the PCs presence here, as it will give her some time to prepare. Remember all of Korsan's buffs, the rat demon's summon, and the golem/object tricks. I'd have the construct in 8 fight as defensively as possible, trying to buy Korsan as much time as possible to prepare. This also means that there might be several rat swarms waiting for the PCs when combat starts. Speak of - once the fighting in 8 stops, don't allow your PCs the standard undefined amount of time to recuperate. Korsan is diving into combat on round 10. So that might be right when the PCs are out of position healing, looting, or talking about retreating. Be ruthless.
With a five hour time slot and smart players who have been studying up for this (as it has been around for 6 months, now) you will end up running this room. I ran it 6 times during one convention, during 4-hour slots, and this room got tackled three times (even successfully conquered twice).
That said, Walter is correct: this is the single most complicated room in the scenario. Learn it, know it, and understand it fully. And be prepared to go long, by the way. Each of the fights I had in this room went beyond the 12 round mark, and tracking buffs became extremely important. Have a way to do so that is quick, as your players will be pressing for the finish line at this point and you don't want to be accused of stalling while you do math after losing a buff or gaining a new one.
I will add one note to Walter's excellent prep notes:
Know your darkness vs light rules. Study all the threads and FAQs you can find on this, because it will come into play in every single game. And, once again, you do not want to waste time arguing about what works and doesn't work.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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With a five hour time slot and smart players who have been studying up for this (as it has been around for 6 months, now) you will end up running this room.
Complete side tangent -- but if you're talking about players that read threads like this or have flipped through Bonekeep with the intention of using that information to their advantage in a game... Yuck. Even thinking about that sort of thing irritates me.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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No one will have flipped through it unless they were handed the scenario by Mike (it's not available for sale or download anywhere), and I can assume Mike isn't going to give it to anyone he doesn't trust, so I don't think that's a concern.
But if you read that thread that I linked to there are plenty of people discussing preparation and tactics. Some of them are off-base and will never come into play in Bone Keep (but are good prep and tactics nonetheless). But many of them will make a group more prepared and capable of getting through to the alchemist's room.
Essentially, when a scenario like this comes along (one that is known to have a higher payout and a higher "danger" factor) that reputation will attract players to it who want bragging rights. And, gamers being gamers, many of them will go in with a plan. I can even see people going to GenCon with a pre-determined table of six players who have played together often enough to know each others' tactics and habits to the point that they are a well-oiled machine.
When I ran it the scenario had really only been seen before at Winter War (? not sure if that's the right name for the con), so no one really had any idea what to expect. Six months later it has grown a "legend." GenCon GMs will see the results of this.
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I can even see people going to GenCon with a pre-determined table of six players who have played together often enough to know each others' tactics and habits to the point that they are a well-oiled machine.
I hope that's the case for players at my table. I love running for well-oiled machines. It's incredibly enjoyable to watch players dismantle hard encounters with good tactics, good builds, good teamwork, and a good consumable or two.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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So, thanks for all the suggestions and stuff, but does anyone have an answer to my original question?
Walter gave you advice in his first post. I've looked at it and done the math but don't trust myself to answer the question correctly. I suspect that's the best you'll get unless you send an email directly to Mike or John (or one of them sees this thread and wants to answer it, which is unlikely with everything going on leading up to GenCon).
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I can even see people going to GenCon with a pre-determined table of six players who have played together often enough to know each others' tactics and habits to the point that they are a well-oiled machine.I hope that's the case for players at my table. I love running for well-oiled machines. It's incredibly enjoyable to watch players dismantle hard encounters with good tactics, good builds, good teamwork, and a good consumable or two.
Like a whole team of freaking hairballs.... :P
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Like a whole team of freaking hairballs.... :PI can even see people going to GenCon with a pre-determined table of six players who have played together often enough to know each others' tactics and habits to the point that they are a well-oiled machine.I hope that's the case for players at my table. I love running for well-oiled machines. It's incredibly enjoyable to watch players dismantle hard encounters with good tactics, good builds, good teamwork, and a good consumable or two.
*whistles innocently*
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A great tactic on room 4 (learned the hard way from Bob Jonquet using it against us), everyone coming into the room is going to realize the chest is trapped. Our group used a large person to open it and then get the items out not activating the trap on the platform around it. Then when we entered room 7 and the clouds went up we all moved back into room 4. One of the rats teleported back into room 4 onto the trapped platform then stepped off activating the trap. The Rat Demons are immune to electricity.
This was very effective against our group as we didn't see it coming and that trap going off while fighting the rats really sucked.
Just food for thought.
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A great tactic on room 4 (learned the hard way from Bob Jonquet using it against us), everyone coming into the room is going to realize the chest is trapped. Our group used a large person to open it and then get the items out not activating the trap on the platform around it. Then when we entered room 7 and the clouds went up we all moved back into room 4. One of the rats teleported back into room 4 onto the trapped platform then stepped off activating the trap. The Rat Demons are immune to electricity.
This was very effective against our group as we didn't see it coming and that trap going off while fighting the rats really sucked.
Just food for thought.
Ouch! I'll have to remember that. :P
In reading through room 4, I couldn't help but think that my level 6 halfling rogue would easily beat it. He'd have no problem finding and disarming the trap on the chest, but in the case of the dias trap, he wouldn't even need to disarm it, because he doesn't weigh enough to set it off!
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but in the case of the dias trap, he wouldn't even need to disarm it, because he doesn't weigh enough to set it off!Assuming he knew how much the trigger weight was, you mean. ;)
You can take 20 to find traps, so he'd figure it out. He'd have to actually roll to disarm it, because take 10 might not be enough, so he'd just get around the trap by ignoring it.
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once the fighting in 8 stops, don't allow your PCs the standard undefined amount of time to recuperate. Korsan is diving into combat on round 10. So that might be right when the PCs are out of position healing, looting, or talking about retreating. Be ruthless.
How do you keep this from getting metagame-y? Let's say the fight in 8 lasts 6 rounds, so they have 3 rounds to recover before Korsan starts bombing them in round 10.
If I stay in initiative order from the first fight, then they know something's up. If I don't, how do I control the normal post-combat chaos of healing and searching without giving away that they're on a time limit, which could affect their decisions of what to do?
Also, you mentioned treasure cards with pictures of the loot on them. I don't suppose you could share yours, so I don't have to spend boat loads of time hunting down appropriate pictures? Maybe this Monday, I'll see if my local game store has any of the Gamemastery item cards in stock. I've never bought any of those, so I'm not entirely sure what's in them. Is there a deck that anyone would say goes particularly well with this adventure?
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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once the fighting in 8 stops, don't allow your PCs the standard undefined amount of time to recuperate. Korsan is diving into combat on round 10. So that might be right when the PCs are out of position healing, looting, or talking about retreating. Be ruthless.
How do you keep this from getting metagame-y? Let's say the fight in 8 lasts 6 rounds, so they have 3 rounds to recover before Korsan starts bombing them in round 10.
If I stay in initiative order from the first fight, then they know something's up. If I don't, how do I control the normal post-combat chaos of healing and searching without giving away that they're on a time limit, which could affect their decisions of what to do?
In six tables I don't recall this fight every being split by multiple rounds. The party either triggered part 2 of the encounter by going up the stairs in an effort to get position on the construct (thus seeing that they had more stuff to deal with) or went the full 10 rounds as written.
If it had gone otherwise I would have removed them from initiative. She only stays out of combat for those 9 rounds to get all her buffs up. So, essentially, they'd have time to start having a look at the tables and look around the room, giving her the chance to finish drinking extracts, at which point you jump into initiative again. After all, if they finish the construct off in two rounds (certainly possible), then there is only another 42 seconds before she's done buffing up. It's not like they're going to be able to really get their "search" on very much before she gets all up in their faces again.
Alternatively, if it goes 4 or 5 rounds, likely some people got hurt. Let the cleric channel a couple times, cast a healing spell or two, then ask for whether anyone else wanted to do anything during those few moments. If no, go to combat. If yes, judge what they are doing based on the remaining 30ish seconds they have, and go from there.
Edit: As an aside to this, what was more challenging was to rework her stat block without everything in it. Based on when she was "found" I had to take out various things. Be ready for that, more than anything else.
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Also, you mentioned treasure cards with pictures of the loot on them. I don't suppose you could share yours, so I don't have to spend boat loads of time hunting down appropriate pictures? Maybe this Monday, I'll see if my local game store has any of the Gamemastery item cards in stock. I've never bought any of those, so I'm not entirely sure what's in them. Is there a deck that anyone would say goes particularly well with this adventure?once the fighting in 8 stops, don't allow your PCs the standard undefined amount of time to recuperate. Korsan is diving into combat on round 10. So that might be right when the PCs are out of position healing, looting, or talking about retreating. Be ruthless.
Here is a link where someone has done a ton of legwork. I don't know who, unfortunately, as the link was just forwarded to me by another VO.
EDIT: I think it was James "Iammars" McTeague that made the cards.
The idea is print off these cards and put them in standard TCG plastic sleeves.
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Also, you mentioned treasure cards with pictures of the loot on them. I don't suppose you could share yours, so I don't have to spend boat loads of time hunting down appropriate pictures? Maybe this Monday, I'll see if my local game store has any of the Gamemastery item cards in stock. I've never bought any of those, so I'm not entirely sure what's in them. Is there a deck that anyone would say goes particularly well with this adventure?once the fighting in 8 stops, don't allow your PCs the standard undefined amount of time to recuperate. Korsan is diving into combat on round 10. So that might be right when the PCs are out of position healing, looting, or talking about retreating. Be ruthless.
Here is a link where someone has done a ton of legwork. I don't know who, unfortunately, as the link was just forwarded to me by another VO.
EDIT: I think it was James "Iammars" McTeague that made the cards.
The idea is print off these cards and put them in standard TCG plastic sleeves.
Yay! People are using my cards!
Since you got a chance to use them - Is there anything I could change to make them more useful? (I haven't gotten to run Bonekeep yet, so I haven't gotten to test them myself.)
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Yay! People are using my cards!
Since you got a chance to use them - Is there anything I could change to make them more useful? (I haven't gotten to run Bonekeep yet, so I haven't gotten to test them myself.)
These are quite awesome, but I was wondering, is there a reason the pdf files don't line the cards up in the same order so you can simply do a 2-sided print? It looks like I need to print all the sheets, cut them all out, then paste them all together front to back to make cards. Or is my download just all whacked?
For instance, front printout has Cloth Bag, Chain Shirt, Cloak as the first row. back printout has Bag of Holding I, Bag of Holding II, Crown of Swords as the first row. Am I missing something super obvious?
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Yay! People are using my cards!
Since you got a chance to use them - Is there anything I could change to make them more useful? (I haven't gotten to run Bonekeep yet, so I haven't gotten to test them myself.)
These are quite awesome, but I was wondering, is there a reason the pdf files don't line the cards up in the same order so you can simply do a 2-sided print? It looks like I need to print all the sheets, cut them all out, then paste them all together front to back to make cards. Or is my download just all whacked?
For instance, front printout has Cloth Bag, Chain Shirt, Cloak as the first row. back printout has Bag of Holding I, Bag of Holding II, Crown of Swords as the first row. Am I missing something super obvious?
I just cut them out. (I can't control the ordering that well from the way the program exports the cards.) That's why I recommended to cut them out and put them in a TCG sleeve.
(Also, I'm not sure if the margins are the same. Again, I don't get a lot of control from how the program exports it because it assumes you're going to print them out and put them in front of a TCG sleeve. I figured it was better not to fight that tendency.)
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I placed a reorganized file of the encounters in the GM prep folder - all statblocks, a map and rules information for each encounter on a page. Might be useful, I found it helped me a lot when I ran bonekeep earlier.
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B041lCt8oofvRWpSUUZzWnNmd2c&usp =sharing&tid=0B041lCt8oofvbWRoVDFjUXVmbXM
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So for the sake of keeping things moving during the game, I'm writing down the knowledge skill and DC to identify every critter in this scenario in advance. Usually, the DC is 10 + CR, but it can be 5 + CR for particular common monsters or 15 + CR for particularly uncommons. Other than the dire rats (5 + CR), does anyone think that any of the other monsters in here deserve to not be the standard 10 + CR?
I was thinking that some of these suckers are unusual variations of more normal things, so maybe make them 15 + CR to identify the oddball variation, but only 5 or 10 + CR to know the normal type. ie Elementals might be 5 + CR, but the odd ones here might be 15 + CR. If someone's roll puts them between those values, I'll tell them about normal elementals, and point out that these don't seem normal, but not tell them the details of how they're abnormal. Does that sound reasonable?
Or should I just go straight 10 + CR on everything (but the dire rats) and not overthink this?
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I wouldn't worry about it too much and your approach seems fine.
My rule of thumb tends to be 5+ for things like rats goblins skeletons etc.
10+ for almost everything and 15+ for monsters that are new for the scenario or only exist in some weird book that I'm unfamiliar with.
That said, my rule of thumb would make the A5 monsters 15+ along with some of the things from A7 (Both being unique to this particular scenario)
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What mutagen does K have prepared? I don't see it mentioned. Her 10 round routine is overkill as both tiers don't take ten rounds, and leave some to drink in the tactics block. It seems less brutal than it should, for what it is.
A2 has multiple reference to "statues" plural. Do the black ice beirs act like the black ice statue wrt healing undead/damaging living with cold? Is the icy terrain DC a 10, or is that raised by 5 like the sentence before it says , bringing it to 15 to run/charge ?
A3 broken areas, are they difficult terrain or floor to ceiling holes or something?
A6 describes hardness 30, and SR 30. Then says it ignores the first 50 damage per round. Is that in addition to the hardness? Effectively like hardness 80?
A8 map doesn't have the statue /golem on the map. Presume center as the text reads?
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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What mutagen does K have prepared? I don't see it mentioned. Her 10 round routine is overkill as both tiers don't take ten rounds, and leave some to drink in the tactics block. It seems less brutal than it should, for what it is.
She has already consumed her mutagen, applying the +4 to Dex and the -2 to Cha. If you do the math on the stats you'll come to 15 points worth of buy (standard NPC buy allotment) after racial adjustments and adjusting out the mutagen. At the high sub-tier her 8th level adjustment went to Con.
Edit: Interestingly, there seems to be no 4th level adjustment.Regarding "less brutal" I beg to differ: I killed a lot of PCs in this encounter, and two of the fights I ran I had to remove extracts from her stat block. If she doesn't get all ten rounds she needs out of her construct, she can remain invisible and flying while she continues to drink, then initiate combat when she's ready. This was discussed a little bit above.
A2 has multiple reference to "statues" plural. Do the black ice beirs act like the black ice statue wrt healing undead/damaging living with cold? Is the icy terrain DC a 10, or is that raised by 5 like the sentence before it says , bringing it to 15 to run/charge ?
There is only the single black ice statue that heals undead/damages living, which is marked on the map. The reference in the "hazards" section to plural statues is an editing error.
The two DCs refer to different actions. An acrobatics check (such as tumbling to avoid attacks of opportunity) is increased in DC by 5 due to the icy floor. Running or charging requires a DC 10 acrobatics check to not fall prone. That check does not get increased to 15 due to the first rule. You can find "Ice Sheet" rules on page 430 of the Core Rule Book.
A3 broken areas, are they difficult terrain or floor to ceiling holes or something?
More like floor to ceiling piles of rubble. They are impassable areas.
A6 describes hardness 30, and SR 30. Then says it ignores the first 50 damage per round. Is that in addition to the hardness? Effectively like hardness 80?
Yep. Artifact-level item. I.E., really f'n hard to damage without meeting the condition of destruction (solving the puzzle).
A8 map doesn't have the statue /golem on the map. Presume center as the text reads?
Center to start, between the four pillars.
Only time this changed for me is when I had players send in a rogue to scout (who was spotted due to a bad roll on his stealth - but was unaware, of course), who then backed out to report to his party what he saw. When they rushed around the corner I had moved it to an out-of-site position just north of the hallway.
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This is just a word of advice on this scenario. I just played it and then checked against my friend's copy, and the game in which I played had many, many GM errors. I frankly don't buy this whole "four star only" business, because I haven't seen high star GMs as any less prone to make errors than low star GMs.
At any rate, GM errors in this scenario are killer. Literally. So please, please, be very careful to be aware as to how all the mechanics work. Like acid NOT ignoring hardness in Pathfinder, etc. And make sure that you put out the 3-4 number of NPCs, not the 6-7. Please.
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I frankly don't buy this whole "four star only" business, because I haven't seen high star GMs as any less prone to make errors than low star GMs.
That's right...we're still human.
But we have put a lot of time into the campaign, and helping others play a game, so they have granted us little tidbits to run for others...
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'Jerk GM moves' AKA 'Solid tactics'
Assuming the party doesnt set off the traps in Room 4 on their own before moving on, do your best to force the party back into that room and in-range of the trap when start the fight in Room 7. The rat demons should be aware of the trap and what is does...and just so happen to be immune to the damage it deals. The party moves back in fear, and one of them teleports back into Room 4 onto the dais, and then 5ft steps off, setting it off.
Have the dogs bullrush the party into the negative energy line.
>:)
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That's not what I'm talking about at all. I'm talking about errors, not tactical decisions.
It's also not about just human error. In my experience, four and five star GMs are less willing to entertain the idea that they are indeed making a mistake. Now, in Bonekeep, it's much harder to understand what's going on from the player's end, so basically we are 100% reliant upon the GM to get it right. In a regular scenario, it's much, much easier to watchdog them, if necessary.
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That's not what I'm talking about at all. I'm talking about errors, not tactical decisions.
If you mean what I posted, my post was not in response to your accusations. It was just tips for other GMs who might run it in the future. :)
Yea, if the mistakes you called out (tier 6-7 number of guys or stats being used at 3-4), then that could have a huge impact on the game. :/
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Neither of those were actually my idea, I got them from other people.
VC Bob Jonquet, I think, came up with the idea for Rooms 4 and 7. And Mike Brock is the first person I heard of using the one I listed for Room 6.
I doubt I'll have anything to say on Part 3 before Gencon, since Im not running it there. If I hear of anything good, though, I'll make sure to share it lol
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32
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This is just a word of advice on this scenario. I just played it and then checked against my friend's copy, and the game in which I played had many, many GM errors. I frankly don't buy this whole "four star only" business, because I haven't seen high star GMs as any less prone to make errors than low star GMs.
At any rate, GM errors in this scenario are killer. Literally. So please, please, be very careful to be aware as to how all the mechanics work. Like acid NOT ignoring hardness in Pathfinder, etc. And make sure that you put out the 3-4 number of NPCs, not the 6-7. Please.
If you have concerns about a GM you should contact your local VO or Mike Brock.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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** spoiler omitted **
Good tip. In addition to the thoughts I posted last year about this, here are some post-run tips I would like to mention:
1. Keep the rules for weapon hardness/HP handy. They are included in the back of the scenario; tear that page out or print it off and have it on hand.2. Put on your most devious GM thinking cap with this game. Don't fudge numbers or add anything extra (this shouldn't need to be stated), but don't hold your punches either. Sunder weapons or disarm them (I had an elemental disarm a gunslinger and drop his pistol into an elemental tube). Bull rush PCs through the negative energy beam. Even better, have one hound move to the other side and ready to bull rush, then have the other hound bull rush the PC through. Now you can ping-pong that poor character through the beam twice and hit him for double the damage in one round. Take off your kiddy gloves for this scenario.
3. Prepare prepare prepare. You need to be ready to do any fight of this scenario at any time, because each table is going to move through it in a different way—or even chain fights together. Be ready for anything, and probably play this before you run it.
4. Make sure your table has fun. This scenario is for people that want a challenge. Make sure its a fun challenge for them. Be as descriptive as possible, and surprise them in every fight if you can. Nothing's better than making your seasoned players go "wait, what?" because you just blew their mind by having those elementals shift into different types. Or dropping phantasmal killers on them with oozes.
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I am gonna be running Bonekeep this weekend
I am a bit worried about the party is going to contain a summoner and druid.. whoa re known for lots of summons...
sadly I cant sunder natural weapons on druids pets/summons...
This same players has given me problems with his tactics before of using elemental shape and investigating ahead using the elemental earthglide abilities..
any suggestions to deal/provide a more dangerous experience for these types of classes ?
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Summoning is a full round action for druids. Teleporting demons can make casting times a bit tricky/painful. If the summoner has their Eidolon out, hit it with the Mind Blast effect of the oozes. The summoner can't send over Int points, so the eidolon will be taken down fairly quickly. The summoner can also only have a single Spell Like version of summon monster running at once, so that should help keep down the number of monsters. Also for the druid, his summons don't last forever, so fight defensively a lot. Run out the clock on the summons.
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I am gonna be running Bonekeep this weekend
I am a bit worried about the party is going to contain a summoner and druid.. whoa re known for lots of summons...
sadly I cant sunder natural weapons on druids pets/summons...
This same players has given me problems with his tactics before of using elemental shape and investigating ahead using the elemental earthglide abilities..any suggestions to deal/provide a more dangerous experience for these types of classes ?
High tier or low tier?
Druid summons will have a hard time getting through the DR.
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Double check with the Druid about his Handle Animal score and the animal's known tricks. If it doesnt have the Attack trick twice, he'll have to push it to attack almost everything in the place.
I only bring this up because I ask players about it all the time, and no less than 4 times have I come across a player who didnt have any idea what tricks did, so they hadnt done anything with them yet.
Im generally pretty lenient with it once that has been found out, but Id be less lenient on it in Bonekeep. Pick them now in Bonekeep, vs 'you can pick them as we go if you want' the rest of the time.
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic
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If it's "probably high tier", you shouldn't need to worry too much. A 5th level party will steamroll the tier 3-4, but a balanced party of optimized 7th level characters will still find the dungeon challenging.
The party needs to eliminate an enemy to get the treasure in a room, so bypassing is not an option.
I know the answer to this, but I told my players I'd ask.
Do the players get to keep the potions that Ambrus gave them at the beginning of the scenario?