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Okay, so a ranger taking the twf tree doesn't NEED to take the actual TWF feat, does he?
At 6 and 10 he can select ITWF and GTWF without needing to meet prerequisites... including the prereq of TWF; right?
And yes it seems silly, to ignore the huge penalties that TWF overcomes, but... in a certain build (see my other thread on shield master), those penalties don't matter.
So, saves me a feat...though delays getting shield master until 11; which means a lot of hurt from those penalties. Unless I can take a feat at low level, then retrain it at higher (it isn't needed as a prereq, if the other feats ignored prereqs, right?)
Eh, giving myself a headache. But the short question; just verifying that a TWF ranger can skip TWF and just take ITWF and GTWF...?
Edit: realized I misunderstood your post in my first response.
Yes, you could take ITWF or GWTF as combat style feats without actually having TWF as a prerequisite.
I'm not sure you would want to; getting an extra attack that would be -13 to hit probably won't help you much. But it is legal.
Peet
Right, not saying he gets it for free, but that he can choose to skip it...
So a TWF ranger could get, say, Double Slice at 2nd for free, then without ever taking TWF, he could get ITWF for free at 6th.
Yes, it's possible, but it would be incredibly stupid to do so, so it isn't exactly something that needs to be fixed.
doable, but I really need to ask, why would you want to take ITWF and GTWF without taking TWF?
You could skip TWF but that is the feat that reduces the penalty for TWF. So while you get that extra attack, you would have to roll a 20 to hit
Not in all instances. I am in the middle of a feat starved dual shield fighter. The Shield Master feat removes all penalties from fighting with two shields. While it is technically a RAW broken feat that never lets any penalties ever apply to any attack roll with a shield, even using RAI it would seem to intentionally remove all TWF type penalties... which negates the need for TWF as a feat. In that one instance, getting those three feats without the base TWF feat would be useful. There may be other similar cases, I don't know...
The problem is, the prerequisite for shield master, shield slam, does require having the two-weapon fighting feat. And if you're using the two-weapon combat style, you can't grab the shield feats without the prerequisites.
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Darigaaz the Igniter wrote: The problem is, the prerequisite for shield master, shield slam, does require having the two-weapon fighting feat. And if you're using the two-weapon combat style, you can't grab the shield feats without the prerequisites. Yup. Both Shield Slam and Shield Master require you to have Two Weapon Fighting first.
Except a weapon and shield Ranger can get Shield Master at 6th without needing to meet the prerequisites. That was kind of the point of the OP...
Mystic Lemur wrote: Except a weapon and shield Ranger can get Shield Master at 6th without needing to meet the prerequisites. That was kind of the point of the OP... Funny because the OP specifically called out a TWF ranger, not a sword and shield ranger. . . . .
Good point. ;)
I'd remove my post, but yeah...
Yeah, you would have to have some way to get both of those without prereqs in that example... which is not likely to happen...
Yeah I noticed something similar when theorycrafting a ranger for an upcoming game.
If you take the "two handed weapon" tree, you can skip getting Cleave and get Greatcleave at level6, for no apparent penalty, bypassing all the prereqs of Greatcleave, including Cleave.
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