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The main purpose I have in taking Druid is to achieve Huge Beast form.
I'm not up for arguing or debating, but I just want RAW backing if possible or the correct interpretation of all this.
"At 8th level, a druid can also use wild shape to change into a Huge or Diminutive animal, a Medium elemental, or a Small or Medium plant creature. When taking the form of animals, a druid's wild shape now functions as beast shape III. When taking the form of an elemental, the druid's wild shape now functions as elemental body II. When taking the form of a plant creature, the druid's wild shape functions as plant shape I."
I would really love to go with the Wolf Shaman archetype, but I notice it affects Wildshape.
"Wild Shape (Su): At 6th level, a wolf shaman's wild shape ability functions at her druid level – 2. If she takes on the form of a canine, she instead uses her druid level + 2."
1.)I notice this doesn't say that I receive Wild Shape at 6th level like a few other Archetypes do, but rather I get a -2 or +2 starting at level 6 depending on the form I take. I would still receive Wildshape at level 4, correct?
2.)I know this effects how many times per day I can shift, but does it effect my level 8 Wildshape ability? ie; If shaping into something other than a Wolf type, would my effective shaping ability only work like the 6th level of Wildshape?(Beast Shape II)
Shaping Focus
"Prerequisites: Wild shape class feature, Knowledge (nature) 5 ranks.
Benefit: If you are a multiclassed druid, your wild shape ability is calculated as though your druid level were four higher, to a maximum level equal to your character level.
Special: This feat has no effect if you are not a multiclassed druid."
3.)Does this feat only increase the number of times I can Wildshape per day, or does it also increase the effective level(beast shape II, beast shape III, elemental body II and III etc.) of Wildshaping?
1.) You should be getting Wild Shape at level 6. It wouldn't make much sense otherwise.
2.) I THINK it affects both. Something like if you're level 8 you can Wild Shape as Beast Shape II into anything you like twice a day (as a 6th level Druid) but if you use it to turn into a wolf, you can Wild Shape as Beast Shape III up to 3 times a day (but if you used your wolf shape twice that counts as your uses of other lower level Wild Shape).
3.) It affects both, it increases your effective Druid level, not just your Druid level for the purposes of one or the other.
Funnily enough I think if you multiclassed with something else for up to two levels you could end up with a higher overall Druid level than you started with.
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1.) You should be getting Wild Shape at level 6. It wouldn't make much sense otherwise.
2.) I THINK it affects both. Something like if you're level 8 you can Wild Shape as Beast Shape II into anything you like twice a day (as a 6th level Druid) but if you use it to turn into a wolf, you can Wild Shape as Beast Shape III up to 3 times a day (but if you used your wolf shape twice that counts as your uses of other lower level Wild Shape).
3.) It affects both, it increases your effective Druid level, not just your Druid level for the purposes of one or the other.
Funnily enough I think if you multiclassed with something else for up to two levels you could end up with a higher overall Druid level than you started with.
So then the detriment of Wolf Shaman wouldn't be much of a detriment at all after I take Shaping Focus? It seems as though it exceedingly counters it.
Okay, here is how I interpret it.
A normal druid can wildshape at level 4. A multiclassing druid can take the Shaping Focus feat only if that druid is multiclassed and has four levels of druid. So, for example, a druid 4 / wizard 3 can take Shaping Focus at character level 7, and it will give him the wildshape ability of a 7th level druid. That's because the feat caps at character level. That's worth repeating -- no matter what, you cannot have an effective druid level higher than your total character level. Say the same character takes a level of MT at level 8. Now the character can wildshape (including huge forms) as an 8th level druid.
A Wolf Totem druid only gets Wildshape at level 6 (not 4 or 5). At level 6, the druid has the wildshape ability of a 4th level druid for medium or small non-canine forms (per Beast Shape 1) and of an 8th level druid for diminutive to huge canine forms (per Beast Shape 3). That means he gets three shifts per day, but only one of those can be to a non-canine form. When he shifts to a non-canine form, it lasts 4 hours. When he shifts to a canine form, it lasts 8 hours.
If you want to take a huge canine form as soon as possible, you can get it at level 6 as a Wolf Totem druid, but you get no wildshape at all at levels 4 and 5. There is no need for the Shaping Focus feat.
If you want to have access to ALL huge non-canine forms, you'll have to wait for 8th level, either as a regular 8th level druid or as a multiclassed druid with 8 total character levels and the Shaping Focus feat.
Note that in ALL cases, the wildshape rules specify that "The form chosen must be that of an animal with which the druid is familiar." You'll have to work with your DM to see if you are familiar with any diminutive, tiny, small, medium, large, or huge canine forms.
Was there a FAQ on this, ever?
Because if not, it needs one.
I don't think the question is clear enough for a FAQ (they like it to be a single, concise question).
I think I might start one if I look through the FAQs and don't see it (I don't think there was one though). Because I don't think it's the RAI that you have Wild Shape as normal from 4th but suddenly drop in effectiveness at 6th.
Eh. Can't hurt to put it up again.
Obviously reply IS required since the question still comes up so often.
Ah, sorry, I was unaware of the ongoing debate.
I prefer my interpretation, but i suppose the answer rests with how your DM wants to play it in game.
HOWEVER, the original question was how to achieve a huge form. Therefore ...
(1) The fastest way is still as a totem druid to 6th level, at which point you can use Beast Shape 3 to assume a huge form of your totem animal. And moreover, (2) that even with the Shaping Focus feat, I do not see any faster way than to be a totem druid at level 6. Shaping Focus only matters if you are multiclass, and your total character level is still the cap of your effective wildshaping.
I do not see that statement 1 or 2 above are altered if the totem druid gets his non-totem wildshape at 4th level or not.
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The fastest way, but not the most EFFECTIVE way, really. No matter what Shaman you take, you're losing out on great forms suited for every occasion. Waiting that extra few levels is worth it, I think, since the benefit in the long run far outweighs the downside.
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I used to argue vehemently that a Shaman could still wildshape as normal at 4th and 5th, and then at 6th the archetype took over, but ever since Cheapy brought this up last time I've become of the belief that it all happens at 6th level. IIRC, the text of the Aquatic Shaman states that you can't wildshape until 6th, and it wouldn't make sense to me if all the others could at 4th.
The real boon to playing a Shaman is summoning as a standard action, anyways.
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So one thing to note, the author did point out that he intended it to replace wild shape but it didn't so by RAW (by the authors account) you get wild shape at 4th and it changes at 6. This has some interesting effects:
6th lvl 1/day you can either assume a non-totem form for 4 hours or a totem form for 8 hours and 2/day you can assume a totem form for 8 hours.
8th lvl 2/day you can assume a non-totem form for 6 hours or a totem form for 10 hours
etc..
This ability comes on as a lvl 6 druid, so even with shaping focus you can't gain the lvl +2 wild shape on totem form ability unless you have 6 levels of Druid. So if you want to get huge at 6th you have to go straight totem druid.
Shaping focus, you have to have wild shape and Kn:Nature 5 ranks but you do not need to multiclass to have this feat (this came up in one of my character builds so i thought i would mention it) but when you do multiclass your druid level +4 capped by character level. This makes it interesting when combined with a totem druid, imagine a level 6 totem druid/lvl 2 barbarian with shaping focus. His wild shape for his totem forms would be 10th (druid lvl + 4, max 8, +2 lvl for his totem form) and his wild shape for non-totem forms would be 8th (Druid-2 or 4th from totem druid levels plus 4 for shaping focus max 8) meaning you can get back your lost levels with this feat by multiclassing.
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I used to argue vehemently that a Shaman could still wildshape as normal at 4th and 5th, and then at 6th the archetype took over, but ever since Cheapy brought this up last time I've become of the belief that it all happens at 6th level. IIRC, the text of the Aquatic Shaman states that you can't wildshape until 6th, and it wouldn't make sense to me if all the others could at 4th.
The real boon to playing a Shaman is summoning as a standard action, anyways.
I'd say that's because the aquatic shaman doesn't get any bonus to any forms. Also I don't see how 1 class (or other minority quantity) having something would mean 10 (or however many other) similar classes get the identical thing— it would maybe only make sense in reverse, where 1 class was written differently without a good reason, yet ambiguously.
An aquatic druid gains this ability at 6th level, except that her effective druid level for the ability is equal to her druid level – 2.It makes complete sense to me and seems entirely intuitive that a wolf shaman (and most other shamans) would still receive the ability at level 4. The difference would be that the wildshapes would function at higher or lower effective level at level 6 and later.
And that is what I think too, however many seem to argue otherwise. Thus leaving me in confusion :)
Huge non-dinosaurs:
Bestiary 1:
Dolphin, Orca
Elephant
Elephant, Mastodon
Squid, Giant
Bestiary 2:
Gar, Giant
Hippopotamus, Behemoth
Megafauna, Megatherium
Bestiary 3:
Megafauna, Archelon
Megafauna, Baluchitherium
Megafauna, Megalania
Which (if any) of these is beneficial and viable for the various shaman types is another matter, I am not analyzing which are helpful forms and qualify for the various shaman types although my guess is not many.
- Gauss
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Its not just the ability to assume large size that provides a benefit but the abilities gained with Beast Shape III, including rake for Lion Shaman, Poison for Snake shaman note the following:
burrow 30 feet, climb 90 feet, fly 90 feet (good maneuverability), swim 90 feet, blindsense 30 feet, constrict, ferocity, jet, poison, rake, trample and web.
are gained at 8th
this opens a lot of options for a 6th lvl Druid, even if huge is not used.
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What huge animals (other than dinosaurs) are people turning into? So long as wild shape disallows templates like "giant" or "advanced" then the only benefits to being any type of shaman other than Saurian are more uses per day and increased duration, right?
It is only my own personal rule, but I allowed the shaman to use a scaled up version of the specific animal type using the size change rules. All other shapes must use a specific bestiary entry. So if there was a Rat Shaman, then at 6th level, they could be a huge dire rat.