Negative energy melee attack vs undead

[MegaPlasticMan]

In the undead creature type rules it says that 'negative energy (such as an inflict spell) can heal undead creatures'

Does it mean that all negative energy types heal undead and it's just using the inflict spell as an example of negative energy, or does it mean that only negative energy spells that specifically mention healing undead in the spell description will heal undead?

This questions came up because we're currently playing a game where we had some wraiths on our side and we wondered what would happen if they were used to attack some other undead, as their melee attack mentions negative energy.

We already know that by RAW negative energy doesn't automatically heal undead as an evil cleric can channel negative energy to harm living and undead in the area would not be affected at all, so can I have some opinions or rules that clear this up?

Thanks.

[ShadowcatX]

This exact thing has been hashed out before. I don't recall what exactly was said, but I'm sure you could find it with a quick forum search.

[Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan]

The 1d6 negative energy from a wraith attack should absolutely be healing other undead.

[Zhayne]

Hmm. It says 'CAN heal', not 'heals'. I would presume it was up to the creature making the attack.

[MegaPlasticMan]

ShadowcatX wrote:

This exact thing has been hashed out before. I don't recall what exactly was said, but I'm sure you could find it with a quick forum search.

I did try a search but the results I found all seemed to be related to dhampirs and the 'negative energy affinity' ability, so I posted what I thought was a new question.

[MegaPlasticMan]

Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan wrote:

The 1d6 negative energy from a wraith attack should absolutely be healing other undead.

That was what I originally thought but that would mean that a wraith could heal itself by hitting itself. The lich creation rules specifically mention that a lich can use its own touch to heal itself which would imply an exception to a general rule where this is not the case. I could not find any mention of this with regard to wraiths though.

[ShadowcatX]

MegaPlasticMan wrote:

ShadowcatX wrote:

This exact thing has been hashed out before. I don't recall what exactly was said, but I'm sure you could find it with a quick forum search.

I did try a search but the results I found all seemed to be related to dhampirs and the 'negative energy affinity' ability, so I posted what I thought was a new question.

IIRC: The reason they focused around the dhampir is that the core books lack RAW stating, explicitly, that all forms of negative energy heal undead. People were using the dhampir and negative energy affinity to say "this is it in the RAW." It was later found in the ARG as well.

[Artanthos]

Look up the rules for the lich's negative energy touch attack.

[MegaPlasticMan]

Artanthos wrote:

Look up the rules for the lich's negative energy touch attack.

It contains the following info...

'A lich can take a full-round action to infuse itself with this energy, healing damage as if it had used its touch attack against itself'

Which to me implies that usually, negative enery attacks cannot be used to heal undead (yes, I know it's not very conclusive, but why bother stating it if the lich could normally just attack itself to heal with a standard action instead of using the full-round action mentioned in the quote?).

[Rynjin]

It has to be specifically stated, just like Positive Energy doesn't harm them unless specifically stated.

Channeling to heal does not harm undead for this reason, only channeling to hurt. Vice versa channeling negative to heal undead vs harm living.

[chaoseffect]

Rynjin wrote:

It has to be specifically stated, just like Positive Energy doesn't harm them unless specifically stated.

Channeling to heal does not harm undead for this reason, only channeling to hurt. Vice versa channeling negative to heal undead vs harm living.

It seems like it should be the other way around, with Channel Energy being the odd ball. The distinction between Channeling to heal and Channeling to hurt seems to only exist for the mechanical reason of "Clerics being able to simultaneously heal all allies while hurting all Undead might be a bit much," or visa versa with an Undead Cleric and allies versus living things. But meh, I don't know.