Raise the Dead / Oracle revelation

[cherub78]

Hey Guys!

Browsing through the boards I found two interpretations of the Raise the dead revelation:

Raise the Dead (Su): As a standard action, you can summon a single skeleton or zombie to serve you. The undead creature has a number of Hit Dice equal to your oracle level. It remains for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma modifier. At 7th level, you can summon a bloody skeleton or fast zombie. At 15th level, you can summon an advanced skeleton or zombie. You can use this ability once per day plus one additional time per day at 10th level.

Let's have a look on a Level 3 oracle summoning a skeleton .

A: Some assume, when using this revelation, you are supposed to take the standard human skeleton from the bestiary and add 2 HD

B: Some assume, you take a creature of 3 HD (like a bugbear) an add the skeleton template.

'A' seems to be widely favored on the boards. Bu I have some concernes about it. First of all I see no limitation to human skeletons in the RAW. Why shouldn't a bugbear oracle summon bugbear skeletons??
Second there is no mentioning of "adding" HD to the skeleton. It just "has" such dice like a bugbear would remain is racial HD when raised as a skeleton.
Third, in higher levels, a human skeleton with 17 HD makes no sense for me. It would be an absolute exception to the normal bestiary creatures. All other summoning spells summon regular creatures with templates. Why shouln't this one?
Fourth, it is much more fun summoning dragon an bulette skeletons ;-)

Has there ever been a clarification? Has it ever been in the FAQs?

[cherub78]

Anyone?

[Lord Foul II]

by raw I would say B, it doesn't say it has to be human, so have at it.

[DonDuckie]

I agree it's B) - the class ability says nothing about size or previous creature type. But I would still say you can summon a human (medium sized biped with two arms) with extra HD at higher levels.

[thenovalord]

If a person where to try and optimize this revelation, any suggestions on stuff to take?

[Shane LeRose]

This should be a FAQ candidate since it doesn't specify size options, creature type, access to feats/skills or anything. I would assume a medium sized skeleton, but what about a frost giant oracle NPC, would she summon a medium skeleton? Seems a little out of whack.

[Dekalinder]

Personally, i'd say you first need a body to raise. Then, whatever that was before, get rescaled to your level of HD (no change in size or other)

[ShadowcatX]

Given the information in the OP and not having read this revelation from its source, it sounds like you don't cast this on a corpse at all. You're summoning the undead, not animating it.

I would probably say you would take the normal skeleton for the hit dice you are summoning out of the bestiary (or the closest option and add hit dice).

[Finlanderboy]

As a standard action, you can summon a single skeleton or zombie to serve you.

Summoning: A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate.

No. You summon them. You need no body.

[Shane LeRose]

That's the point I'm trying to make. The undead is summoned, but what kind?

Bolded for extremeness

When using the oracle revelation Raise the Dead what is the size of the summoned undead?

What if the oracle is Large sized or larger?

There. Now we can FAQ it and hopefully get an answer.

[Xaratherus]

I think Finlanderboy's comment was in response to Dekalinder, who implied that you needed a corpse first.

One of the greater benefits of Raise the Dead is that in an emergency, you can raise a minion without having a corpse\skeleton around.

My guess is that the intent is to raise a medium skeleton\zombie, since medium-sized creatures are the default for all game mechanics (as illustrated by the recent two-handed weapon FAQs); that said, I will tap for FAQ anyway, because it makes more thematic sense to raise a creature of similar size to the Oracle.

[ShadowcatX]

At this point I have no idea what I think the intent of the rule is, so I happily clicked the FAQ.

That said, I would've sworn that there was a default, skeletons with X - Y hit dice are generally medium, Y +1 - Z is generally large, etc. . .

[Aioran]

cherub78 wrote:

A: Some assume, when using this revelation, you are supposed to take the standard human skeleton from the bestiary and add 2 HD

B: Some assume, you take a creature of 3 HD (like a bugbear) an add the skeleton template.

You only add 2HD when making a Skeletal Champion. B is the correct option. (You can summon the body of whatever you like as long as its within your HD limit)

[cherub78]

yes Shadowcat, that was 3.5 stuff...

No Aioran, you can add racial HD to most creatures as specified in "adding racial HD" (see bestiary)
the method is quite easy (add 4,5+CHA HP per HD, use clerics progression for BAB and appropiate progressions for saves, add one ability point per 4 HD and so on...)

Still the question is, what is the intention of the rule.

Please flag FAQ

[Bomanz]

I just assumed that when you used the revelation, your awesome oracle-ness infused the summoned skeleton (place me in the "you just get one, dont need no body" camp please) with deathly Oracle magic-y-ness and made a standard 1hd skeleton with added hit dice and abilities based on it.

Its kind of cooler that way than to just suddenly say "oh, I've got a stone giant skeleton that comes my way!"

IMHO.