Season 5 Countering Demons. Tactics, gear, suggestions?


Grand Lodge


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Well with the foreshadowing and outright declaration of impending dimensional tourists, I figured why not put a thread about possible tactics, gear, and planning on how to deal with the visitors from another realm.

So... *tongue in cheeky*

From: Syndr, Evoker 1st class, Esq. Technical Division
To: Wayfarer Journal
Attn: Article Submissions.

Subject: Threat Assessment, Transdimensionally Aligned Species.
Organization: Otherworld Hostiles, Collected Response And Protection.

To my esteemed superiors
After observing multiple encounters with transdimensionally aligned species (henceforth known as demons for brevity) we have compiled a threat assessment and have proposed several recommendations for your approval. Despite rumors and layman's knowledge to the contrary, I regret to inform that the even the demons actually have a form of established heirachy. As such the various entities conform to specific ranks.

I regret to inform you that the least-most minions of these demons, little more than conscripts by their standards are far superior to the equivalent that we as the inhabitants of Golarion could recruit against them if we tried to match their numbers. A detailed breakdown of their abilies is at the end of this report.

The highest ranking demon we have witnessed is on par with a company of conventional troops and would easily overwhelm the typical militia in any given village. Even more worrisome are documented accounts of high-ranking demons capable city-scale devastation, which we would be hard-pressed to match with the exception below.

Our proposal is instead to assemble small strike teams of highly skilled
individuals. Though past history with the performance of Pathfinder
representatives has been somewhat irregular they are still the most
qualified and form the bulk of expenda...er battle-hardened and seasoned
pool of recruits.

In addition it has been well chronicled in the Society that even only a few individuals are capable of tremendous devastat...er impact. Based on the level of demonic threat and financial resources available we have several suggested tools be recommended for deployment:

All threats:
Knowledge of Demons, usually a subset of planar scholars.
"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles... if you do not know your enemies nor yourself you will be imperiled in every single battle." True throughout history and never more so than now.

Low threat
==========
Holy Water
The bane of undead also appears to be quite efficacious in dealing with the low tiers of demons.
Roughly two typical direct hits with a standard dose seems to repulse or even destroy the lowest-tier demonic threats.

Bless Weapon
In scroll or oil form, this particular divine enchantment has proved to
greatly increase effectiveness of conventional weapon attacks against
demons. In fact this increase seems to be maintained even up the highest
ranking threats and should always be available to all said teams that
expect to encounter demons.

Tanglefoot Bag
While considered by many to be an unusual form of offensive equipment,
this alchemical substance nevertheless is quite effective in reducing
the combat prowess of selected demons. At the very least it has a very
good chance of buying those teams who find themselves overmatched a few
seconds to make their withdrawal.

Faerie Fire
While restricted to a subset of our caster pool, this is an effective
countermeasure against invisible threats.

Cold Iron armaments
Conventional arms seem to fare poorly against demonic kind. However,
when treated or made with cold iron, most lower-tier demons seem to
suffer fully when incuring injuries from weapons of this grade. At
higher tiers, this appears to be a mandatory component for weapons used
against them if the aforementioned Bless Weapon spell is not available.

Manacles, rope
Through attempts to gather intelligence we discovered that an dismayingly many members of demonic society apparently have the means to dimensional shift at will. This makes mundane form of restraints utterly useless.

Medium Threat
=============
Beyond the typical conscript-grade demons, there is a bit of a quantum
leap in terms of lethality. Demons of this grade and higher exhibit
high combat and magical prowess.

Daylight
A multitude of demons have the ability to manifest darkness or deeper darkness effects at will. Save for our darksighted or blind-fighting trained specialists, some form of magical counter is called for.

Elemental attacks
Elemental attack forms would seem to fare poorly against many demon-kin.
Whether magical or conventional it would appear the demons' nature makes them inherently resistant to elements and magic. In some cases outright immune to certain elemental types. Other than application of massive concentrated firepower our research group has yet to provide a viable method to increase the effectiveness of elemental offense.

Aligned Enchantments
Bless Weapon still covers this contigency. If funding permits, we have found that very strongly enchanted weapons seem to be adequate to bypass this defense.

Conjuration style Magics
Debilitating effects such as those induced by Dazing, Blinding, Entangle, and Stunning seem to have some effect. Unfortunately without a corresponding damage provider, this serves to do little but to buy time for a steady withdrawal (cf. Tanglefoot bag). A special exception is made for Glitterdust. In addition to blinding it does negate one of the demon's most offensive abilities, at-will invisibility.

Disposable forces (a.k.a. Summons)
While many on the board in the past including myself have expressed misgivings using proxy forces, I nevertheless must acknowledge that the ability to provide supplemental troops at a moment's notice, some with exactly the special abilities (flight, smite) needed to counter the demonic threat serves as a considerable force multiplier.

Dimensional Anchoring
There are very few methods at our disposal to effectively handle at-will dimensional shifting. The most knowledgeable casters have provided one solution known as Dimensional Anchor. However given it has a very restricted pre-requisite for use it is something that only top-tier teams will have readily available.

Demon-bane enchantment
While again very effective, the high cost in resources makes this an option only for top-tier (or very well funded) teams. Especially when we consider that demons are expected to have followers and minions that may not be demonic in nature in which this budget expenditure is effectively wasted until the demon himself is isolated and assaulted.

Divine Magic
While many of the traditional curative and morale-boosting magics are still called for, the array of offensive divine magics are only moderately effective with roughly 50% damage scaling to their arcane counterparts, though granted many do bypass the elemental restrictions.

Flight
The advantages given by air superiority are obvious. Unfortunately in most cases, demons have this advantage. Our defensive forces and strike teams should allow for this on almost every confrontation.

High Threat
===========
We regret that none of our scouting teams that we have sent to get a clearer picture of threats at this level have returned. See attached requisition #17-A Re: Pathfinder scouts.

Demonsorrow, Elven Curve Blade
There is one known high-end counter in our books, and that is the well-known weapon Demonsorrow. However given its extreme cost (roughly equivalent to the net worth of a city) and highly restricted use as very few weapon-users have chosen to specialize in this weapon we are reluctant to recommend that this be a serious consideration.

Detailed reports on various demons follows:

***REDACTED***

This concludes our report. We are hopeful that our research and development team will act on the contained recommendations and provide supplemental or alternative solutions to the problems we have stated.

Syhner, Evoker 1st class, Esq.
Technical Division, OHCRAP.

Silver Crusade

It appears that the looming shadow of the Worldwound may be the ultimate mission for which the Inheritor called me to her service so long ago and has been preparing me ever since.

Unlike most clerics, I am granted by Iomedae the ability to cast bless weapon, a gift normally reserved for paladins. Furthermore, I have recently been blessed with the ability to call forth divine light so pure that even the foulest of magical darkness disperses before me. And even beyond that, I have been uniquely gifted with a divine ability to more easily pierce outsiders' resistance to magical assault, affecting them when other casters' spells fall on them as harmlessly as waves against a rock.

I had long believed my unique gifts to be more of a contingency should I happen to encounter demons in my travels; however, I now believe that I was being prepared for the coming storm. I now stand ready to take my place at the front lines against the threat of the Worldwound. The forces of darkness will not prevail so long as I still wield the light of Iomedae.

Silver Crusade

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Y'all sit back and rest your pretty little heads easy. I'm Sparrow Sundance, paladin of the just and righteous Iomedae; here's my card. It reads "Have gun. Will travel."

This here pistol, she is named Boone. She don't look like much, but she'll fool ya. She's got a hair trigger and can knock a horsefly off a balor's backside at ten paces. That there Worldwound don't stand a chance.

Silver Crusade

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Thomas and Sparrow have the right of it. The best shot you have against demonic beasties is to worship the light and truth that is Iomedae. We will, of course, do out best to protect the rest of you until you lot see the light.

Grand Lodge

Well, I ain't as faithful as those other three guys (by which I mean not at all) but I think I got it covered. My usual way of dealing with demons and other such outsiders is to let someone else do it. You need an aligned weapon? I got ya covered. Want some big undead or whatever to cut off the enemy's escape or to stand in between you and the other guy--particularly the other guy's sword? Yeah, sure. Want me to keep the other guy from using spells? No problem. Want me to actually hit anything? Try someone else.

Liberty's Edge

*smiles* This is gonna be fun...

Grand Lodge

"Darkness is not only the purview of demons," frowned the short, dark gnome? Fey? Whatever she was.

Silver Crusade

"I am not yet fully trained to deal with the demons, but I hope to learn more as we go. It is my duty and privilege to fight for all of the people of Golarion against the incursion."

The overarmored woman with the pair of greatswords gives an acknowledging nod to the other followers of the Inheritor.

Edit: spelling

Grand Lodge

What?! Demons? My illusions and enchantments won't be much of use against some demons.. But if they have cultists or other maniacs following them, I think enchanters and illusionists will be helpful. Hopefully Ten will not send us somewhere too deep in the Worldwound as I fear that many younger agents (like myself) will never return to Absalom.

The Exchange

"By cause of both contractual obligation and disdain of reading such an unorganized report, I went ahead an collated your list for you; Billing will be placed upon the tab of a representative of the Decemvirate's chossing, as per standard."

For size purposes:
From: Syndr, Evoker 1st class, Esq. Technical Division
To: Wayfarer Journal
Attn: Article Submissions.

Subject: Threat Assessment, Transdimensionally-Aligned Species.
Organization: Otherworld Hostiles, Collected Response And Protection.

To my esteemed superiors,

After observing multiple encounters with transdimensionally-aligned species (henceforth known as demons for brevity,) we have compiled a threat assessment and have proposed several recommendations for your approval. Despite rumors and layman's knowledge to the contrary, I regret to inform that the even the demons actually have a form of established hierarchy. As such, the various entities conform to specific ranks.

I regret to inform you that the least-most minions of these demons (little more than conscripts by their standards) are far superior to the equivalent that we as the inhabitants of Golarion could recruit against them if we tried to match their numbers. A detailed breakdown of their abilities is at the end of this report.

The highest ranking demon we have witnessed is on par with a company of conventional troops and would easily overwhelm the typical militia in any given village. Even more worrisome are documented accounts of high-ranking demons capable city-scale devastation, which we would be hard-pressed to match with the exception below.

Our proposal is instead to assemble small strike teams of highly skilled individuals. Though past history with the performance of Pathfinder representatives has been somewhat irregular they are still the most qualified and form the bulk of battle-hardened and seasoned pool of recruits.

In addition, it has been well chronicled in the Society that even only a few individuals are capable of tremendous impact. Based on the level of demonic threat and financial resources available we have several suggested tools be recommended for deployment:

All threats:

  • Knowledge of Demons, usually a subset of planar scholars. ~ "If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles... if you do not know your enemies nor yourself you will be imperiled in every single battle." True throughout history and never more so than now.

      Low threat:
    • Holy Water: The bane of undead also appears to be quite efficacious in dealing with the low tiers of demons. Roughly two typical direct hits with a standard dose seems to repulse or even destroy the lowest-tier demonic threats.
    • Bless Weapon: In scroll or oil form, this particular divine enchantment has proved to greatly increase effectiveness of conventional weapon attacks against demons. In fact this increase seems to be maintained even up the highest ranking threats and should always be available to all said teams that expect to encounter demons.
    • Tanglefoot Bag: While considered by many to be an unusual form of offensive equipment, this alchemical substance nevertheless is quite effective in reducing the combat prowess of selected demons. At the very least it has a very good chance of buying those teams who find themselves outmatched a few seconds to make their withdrawal.
    • Faerie Fire: While restricted to a subset of our caster pool, this is an effective countermeasure against invisible threats.
    • Cold Iron armaments: Conventional arms seem to fare poorly against demonic kind. However, when treated or made with cold iron, most lower-tier demons seem to suffer fully when incuring injuries from weapons of this grade. At higher tiers, this appears to be a mandatory component for weapons used against them if the aforementioned Bless Weapon spell is not available.
    • Manacles, rope: Through attempts to gather intelligence, we discovered that an alarmingly large members of demonic society apparently have the means to dimensional shift at will. This makes mundane form of restraints utterly useless.

      Medium Threat:
    • Daylight: A multitude of demons have the ability to manifest darkness or deeper darkness effects at will. Save for our darksighted or blind-fighting trained specialists, some form of magical counter is called for.
    • Elemental attacks: Elemental attack forms would seem to fare poorly against many demon-kin. Whether magical or conventional it would appear the demons' nature makes them inherently resistant to elements and magic. In some cases outright immune to certain elemental types. Other than application of massive concentrated firepower our research group has yet to provide a viable method to increase the effectiveness of elemental offense.
    • Aligned Enchantments: Bless Weapon still covers this contingency. If funding permits, we have found that very strongly enchanted weapons seem to be adequate to bypass this defense.
    • Conjuration style Magics: Debilitating effects such as those induced by Dazing, Blinding, Entangle, and Stunning seem to have some effect. Unfortunately without a corresponding damage provider, this serves to do little but to buy time for a steady withdrawal (cf. Tanglefoot bag). A special exception is made for Glitterdust. In addition to blinding it does negate one of the demon's most offensive abilities, at-will invisibility.
    • Disposable forces (a.k.a. Summons): While many on the board in the past (including myself) have expressed misgivings using proxy forces, I nevertheless must acknowledge that the ability to provide supplemental troops at a moment's notice. Some units are equipped with exactly the special abilities (flight, smite) needed to counter the demonic threat serves as a considerable force multiplier.
    • Dimensional Anchoring: There are very few methods at our disposal to effectively handle at-will dimensional shifting. The most knowledgeable casters have provided one solution known as Dimensional Anchor. However given it has a very restricted per-requisite for use it is something that only top-tier teams will have readily available.
    • Demon-bane enchantment: While again very effective, the high cost in resources makes this an option only for top-tier (or very well funded) teams. Especially when we consider that demons are expected to have followers and minions that may not be demonic in nature in which this budget expenditure is effectively wasted until the demon himself is isolated and assaulted.
    • Divine Magic: While many of the traditional curative and morale-boosting magics are still called for, the array of offensive divine magics are only moderately effective with roughly 50% damage scaling to their arcane counterparts, though granted many do bypass the elemental restrictions.
    • Flight: The advantages given by air superiority are obvious. Unfortunately in most cases, demons have this advantage. Our defensive forces and strike teams should allow for this on almost every confrontation.

      High Threat:
    • We regret that none of our scouting teams that we have sent to get a clearer picture of threats at this level have returned. See attached requisition #17-A Re: Pathfinder scouts.
    • Demonsorrow, Elven Curve Blade: There is one known high-end counter in our books, and that is the well-known weapon Demonsorrow. However given its extreme cost (roughly equivalent to the net worth of a city) and highly restricted use as very few weapon-users have chosen to specialize in this weapon we are reluctant to recommend that this be a serious consideration.

    This concludes our report. We are hopeful that our research and development team will act on the contained recommendations and provide supplemental or alternative solutions to the problems we have stated.

    Syhner, Evoker 1st class, Esq.
    Technical Division, OHCRAP.
    Collated and stamped by Universal Bank of Abadar Stamp #22357-9, Amira El-Amin

  • Grand Lodge

    Twig blinks rapidly, flinching and twitching at everyone who approches her and pretty much every sudden sound, she even jumps a few times when startled. Upon hearing the discussion of just how to deal with demons, she squeaks a bit then says, in a pretty soft voice. "Um... run? Maybe panic, or both." She grins sheepishly.

    Liberty's Edge

    "Scum of the Abyss, you will all be purged off this world by Iomedae's might!"

    .charges into battle.

    Grand Lodge

    It is true, the counter to the abyssal spawn lies within the grasp of any priest whom can cast even the most minor of prayers. I know that the prayers which summon forth an arrow of law is extremely devastating to creatures whom bear an affinity to chaos.

    It does not fall solely to Aroden's Herald to bear the arms in the coming conflicts... yet that is what i am seeing from many in this room. The balance is upset and order diminished by the forces in that scarred land... even the most powerful of enchantments can be broke by the erosion of time. The wiles of the enemy still capable of seducing knowledge from the hearts and minds of men to bypass the stones...

    Charging into battle does nothing but bring souls to the boneyard for judgement. Use your mind and fight carefully, for your enemy has existed since the dawn of time... and found ways to trip even the strongest of us up.

    Electricity is worthless against them, so make sure you have other means of inflicting casualties.

    Grand Lodge

    The tengu points to Cor'Win. "This guy gets it. If you do nothing but righteously charge into battle then the rest of us guys are going to be righteously collecting your limbs afterwards. Discretion and--dare I say it--teamwork might actually get the job done without us having to drag someone's corpse back to a temple after scavenging for diamonds."

    Grand Lodge

    Priests/priestesses of human decent are one of the best weapons against any kind of outsider. If they focus there specialty toward the penetration of the outsiders magic resistance. I have searched and found this to be a human and there kin only aspect... i urge each cleric to think long and hard how they focus there faiths in the coming days ahead.

    My knowledge of the Planes has increased since i have started missions against the forces of the Abyss. I welcome any discussions while i am in Absolom. If i am not available, i suggest that those interested in combating Demons speak with and aid the membership of the Riftwardens. They are the most capable organization with that focus in mind.

    Yomotsu, thank you for the support and testimony. With the coming conflicts ahead, i fear that a great many of our brethren will be needing those Diamonds.

    Sczarni

    I call balls of water to tangle them up. It is hard to magitize away being bounced around in a large ball of water.

    Normal magic is not as effective so calling magiciness is best for devils.*does not realize they are different things*

    Stupid creatures from hell resisting my colorspray. But when I did go to hell to save the Counter lady and I did colorspray their giant dog thate breathed fire.

    The Exchange

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    Fellow Pathfinders,

    Allow me to fortify your initial works with supplemental knowledge of importance when confronting demons. I have confronted their kind on numerous occasions, not the least of which has been during times my arcane research has called for me to travel to their planar realm of the Abyss in search of rare spell components and lore forgotten to mortals.

    Source: First hand experience and experimentation.

    1). Do not employ electrical energy or poison against their ilk.
    They simply are not vulnerable to such things.

    2). Never assume they are alone, even if they appear to be.
    Even the lowly creature known as a Dretch can potentially call thralls indebted to it to come to it's aid. Perhaps fittingly enough, the unreliable nature of these creatures occasionally sees that a call for assistance simply goes unanswered.

    3). Unless you can prevent their teleportation, expect constant harassment.
    A simple dimensional anchor can be a sufficient, if costly for our younger Pathfinders, solution for a single adversary. For the more experienced Pathfinder, I recommend the weapon enchantment known as phase locking. Simply brilliant for confronting any planar beings, that. My companion Varenal Heavenborne, a Paladin of Erastil, also possesses an interesting manifestation of his faith through oaths he has sworn to fell demons that prevents those who hazard too close to him from employing their teleportation.

    Should you be unable to prevent such a tactic, you are well advised to disperse from the area you fought the creature so that it will not bear certainty of where you have gone upon it's return. If you remain in strong status, standing back to back and preparing to strike upon it's return may also contribute to your eventual victory.

    4). Remember your most basic training.
    Do you have "combatants" on your mission team unable to successfully strike or wound these creatures? They can still provide supplemental aid to another by assisting those capable of wounding the demons in striking the creatures more accurately. Count out no combatant. All should be taking action, even if it seems inconsequential.

    5). Troubles with darkness.
    As stated, many variety of demon manifests darkness. Only the strongest of their kind possess the sensory strength to see through the strongest darkness, however. If your mission team is beset by lesser darkness magics and does not possess a proper counter, employ a deeper magical darkness if you are able. Chances are strong that unless you face a powerful Glabrezu or Nalfeshnee that the demon will be nearly as blind as you in such conditions.

    6). Contingency plans prevent Pathfinder deaths.
    As it is true in wizardry, it is true of all things. He or she who is best prepared often emerges successful. If you even suspect you will be confronting demons, I suggest your visit your local arcanist or temple and commission the following items for emergency unless you are capable of employing similar effects through your own merits:

    oil or scroll of daylight cost: 750 or 375 gp
    oil or scroll of bless weapon cost: 50 or 25 gp
    oil or scroll of grease to coat yourself in (unpleasant as it may sound, when they try to grab you, you will thank me) cost: 50 or 25 gp
    scroll of lesser globe of invulnerability (you will be surprised how effective this in combating many of their magics) cost: 750 gp
    scroll of crusader's edge (excellent for slaying demons) cost: 750 gp
    scroll of blessing of feror cost: 750 gp

    Many of these things can even be acquired simply using the favors we tend to gather through service to the society without personal cost.

    Silver Crusade

    Saren Valasorn wrote:
    oil or scroll of daylight cost: 750 or 375 gp

    You're going to feel awfully silly when you try to read that scroll in the utter darkness. Thankfully, my heritage has provided me with some access to the spark of divinity, so such magical items are unneeded. But for those whose parentage is more mundane, don't buy an unreadable scroll just to save a bit of coin.

    Sczarni

    Butyl Ithyomsson wrote:
    Saren Valasorn wrote:
    oil or scroll of daylight cost: 750 or 375 gp
    You're going to feel awfully silly when you try to read that scroll in the utter darkness. Thankfully, my heritage has provided me with some access to the spark of divinity, so such magical items are unneeded. But for those whose parentage is more mundane, don't buy an unreadable scroll just to save a bit of coin.

    Darknesseses is not everywheres. Just tanglebag yourself and use your gnome boots to telephone away out of it. Let the sword swinging Andy-or-Anns deal with it.

    Sovereign Court

    Pontificaor - I'm going to use that in all future dealings with non pathfinders - Go tanglebag yourself....I'm still laughing and can't stop. Maybe I've tanglebagged myself.


    Pontificor the Great wrote:
    ... Just tanglebag yourself ...

    I'm not entirely sure what that means, but it sounds unpleasant.

    The Exchange

    Butyl Ithyomsson wrote:
    Saren Valasorn wrote:
    oil or scroll of daylight cost: 750 or 375 gp
    You're going to feel awfully silly when you try to read that scroll in the utter darkness. Thankfully, my heritage has provided me with some access to the spark of divinity, so such magical items are unneeded. But for those whose parentage is more mundane, don't buy an unreadable scroll just to save a bit of coin.

    With your ability to employ such a thing through your heritage, you should know that such magic bears a significant duration. 50 minutes in the case of the average scroll. Anticipation and strategic use can invalidate need to employ such magics in an emergency. Should such a thing be sprung upon you, one may simply move out of the darkness before using the scroll's magic.

    I have yet to encounter a dungeon or lair that could not be cast down in 50 minutes. When my companions and I confronted and slew Runelord Karzoug some months ago, the ancient defenses of his private sanctum hardly took us more than 20 minutes to sweep through thoroughly.

    Sovereign Court

    Kydeem de'Morcaine wrote:
    Pontificor the Great wrote:
    ... Just tanglebag yourself ...
    I'm not entirely sure what that means, but it sounds unpleasant.

    Funnier answer: "Can't really say that on these message boards without getting banned."

    Actual Answer: Wear Boots of Escape and throw a tanglefoot bag at the square beneath yourself to trigger the Dim Door effect when you entangle and/or grapple yourself.

    Sovereign Court

    One answer you escape the sticky situation as defined above.

    2nd answer your escape is negated by a dimensional lock. Then you are really Tanglebagged!

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