Furious Finish


Rules Questions

Scarab Sages

Can I use channel smite and forceful strike with furious finish to max out all dice? I feel like that's cheating lol....

Shadow Lodge

channel smite i want to say yes because it adds damage dice to the source of the attack, but forceful strike reads as if it adds a second amount of damage on top of normal attacks, i could be wrong though.


Furious Finish is a barbarian (rage) only thing, so unless you're a cleric/paladin that somehow picks up rage you're not going to qualify for it in the first place. Secondly, Furious Finish only maximizes the damage dice from the Vital Strike chain of feats (which multiply weapon damage). It would not apply to the damage dice from the channeled smite.

I searched on the PRD and could not find Forceful Strike, what is it?

Scarab Sages

Claxon wrote:

Furious Finish is a barbarian (rage) only thing, so unless you're a cleric/paladin that somehow picks up rage you're not going to qualify for it in the first place. Secondly, Furious Finish only maximizes the damage dice from the Vital Strike chain of feats (which multiply weapon damage). It would not apply to the damage dice from the channeled smite.

I searched on the PRD and could not find Forceful Strike, what is it?

Instantaneous

You cast this spell as you strike a creature with a melee weapon, unarmed strike, or natural attack to unleash a concussive blast of force. You deal normal weapon damage from the blow, but also deal an additional amount of force damage equal to 1d4 points per caster level (maximum of 10d4). The force of the blow may be enough to knock the target backward as well. To determine if the target is pushed back, make a combat maneuver check with a bonus equal to your caster level to resolve a bull rush attempt against the creature struck. You do not move as a result of this free bull rush, but it can push the target back if it defeats the target’s CMD. A successful Fortitude save halves the force damage and negates the bull rush effect.


Forceful Strike would be a separate attack performed as part of the swift action of the casting of the spell. You could not use it with vital strike because you're not using the attack action, which means Furious FInish couldn't be used either.

Edit: Read that a bit wrong, so you could use forceful strike with vital strike provided you made a single attack using the attack action, but the damage increase from vital strike would be the "normal damage" referenced in the spell. Furious Finish could also be used, but once again would only apply to damage from weapon dice, not from the force damage of the spell.

Scarab Sages

Claxon wrote:

Forceful Strike would be a separate attack performed as part of the swift action of the casting of the spell. You could not use it with vital strike because you're not using the attack action, which means Furious FInish couldn't be used either.

Edit: Read that a bit wrong, so you could use forceful strike with vital strike provided you made a single attack using the attack action, but the damage increase from vital strike would be the "normal damage" referenced in the spell. Furious Finish could also be used, but once again would only apply to damage from weapon dice, not from the force damage of the spell.

sounds fine with me, thanks for your opinion


So.

Forceful strike is a swift cast spell.

Channel Smite is a swift action, on undead if you are positive channeler, living if you are negative. Therefore, can't use both in the same round.

As far as Furious Finish... Channel Smite, I would say yes, it's part of the attack. Forceful Strike, no, it's a separate damage pool in addition to "normal weapon damage."

Scarab Sages

TGMaxMaxer wrote:

So.

Forceful strike is a swift cast spell.

Channel Smite is a swift action, on undead if you are positive channeler, living if you are negative. Therefore, can't use both in the same round.

As far as Furious Finish... Channel Smite, I would say yes, it's part of the attack. Forceful Strike, no, it's a separate damage pool in addition to "normal weapon damage."

Are immediate and swift the same thing? My guess is no but i don't really know.


Quote:

Channel Smite (Combat)

You can channel your divine energy through a melee weapon you wield.

Prerequisite: Channel energy class feature.

Benefit: Before you make a melee attack roll, you can choose to spend one use of your channel energy ability as a swift action. If you channel positive energy and you hit an undead creature, that creature takes an amount of additional damage equal to the damage dealt by your channel positive energy ability. If you channel negative energy and you hit a living creature, that creature takes an amount of additional damage equal to the damage dealt by your channel negative energy ability. Your target can make a Will save, as normal, to halve this additional damage. If your attack misses, the channel energy ability is still expended with no effect.

Additional damage isn't weapon damage.

Quote:

Furious Finish

You channel all of your rage into one massive blow to crush your enemy.

Prerequisites: Rage class feature, Vital Strike, base attack bonus +6.

Benefit: While raging, when you use the Vital Strike feat, you can choose not to roll your damage dice and instead deal damage equal to the maximum roll possible on those damage dice. If you do, your rage immediately ends, and you are fatigued (even if you would not normally be).

"On those dmage dice" is refering to the damage dice granted by vital strike/improved vital strike/greater vital strike, possibly including your base weapon damage dice. But certainly excluding and additional damage dice that are not weapon damage dice.


@MR.

Swift and Immediate are different... sort of. An immediate action can be taken when it is not your turn, but uses up the swift you would normally get next round. You get one swift action in addition to a move and a standard on your turn (you can also take a full round and a swift instead).

However, immediate and swift don't actually matter for this because neither Forceful Strike or Channel Smite use an immediate action. Furious Finish says immediately in the text, but doesn't take an action to do.

Forceful Strike has a casting time of 1 swift action, and Channel Smite is used as a swift action before you make your attack roll. You can't do both in the same round.

@Claxon

You can also break it up thus, and still be completely within the rules of english syntax.

Quote wrote:


Furious Finish

You channel all of your rage into one massive blow to crush your enemy.

Prerequisites: Rage class feature, Vital Strike, base attack bonus +6.

Benefit: While raging, when you use the Vital Strike feat, you can choose not to roll your damage dice and instead deal damage equal to the maximum roll possible on those damage dice. If you do, your rage immediately ends, and you are fatigued (even if you would not normally be).

This would count all damage dice from the weapon strike, which would include channel smite dice, which only happen on the weapon successfully striking.


TGMaxMaxer wrote:


You can also break it up thus, and still be completely within the rules of english syntax.
Quote wrote:


Furious Finish

You channel all of your rage into one massive blow to crush your enemy.

Prerequisites: Rage class feature, Vital Strike, base attack bonus +6.

Benefit: While raging, when you use the Vital Strike feat, you can choose not to roll your damage dice and instead deal damage equal to the maximum roll possible on those damage dice. If you do, your rage immediately ends, and you are fatigued (even if you would not normally be).

This would count all damage dice from the weapon strike, which would include channel smite dice, which only happen on the weapon successfully striking.

Except that Furious Finish modifies Vital Strike. And Vital Strike says:

Quote:

Vital Strike (Combat)

You make a single attack that deals significantly more damage than normal.

Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +6.

Benefit: When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage. Roll the weapon's damage dice for the attack twice and add the results together before adding bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), precision based damage, and other damage bonuses. These extra weapon damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, but are added to the total.

So no, Furious Finish is not intended to work that way, even if it isn't particularly clear.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Furious Finish All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Rules Questions