I am playing a summoner in Organized play. i was wondering if i am able to use the SLA then summon the Eidolon. I asked around and my fellow members said no. Is this true? The summon monster ability says that I cannot do the SLA while the Eidolon is out. It doesn't say that i can't summon the Eidolon when the summoned monster is out.
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I am playing a summoner in Organized play. i was wondering if i am able to use the SLA then summon the Eidolon. I asked around and my fellow members said no. Is this true? The summon monster ability says that I cannot do the SLA while the Eidolon is out. It doesn't say that i can't summon the Eidolon when the summoned monster is out.
You can't use your SLA to summon monsters when your Eidolon is around. The same goes in reverse. No bringing in the Eidolon if you used your SLA to summon monsters. it essentially uses the same energy and interferes with each other. Now if you picked the summon monster spell as taking up one of your known spell slots then that's different. You can have your Eidolon out and then cast as a full around action to summon monsters.
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I am playing a summoner in Organized play. i was wondering if i am able to use the SLA then summon the Eidolon. I asked around and my fellow members said no. Is this true? The summon monster ability says that I cannot do the SLA while the Eidolon is out. It doesn't say that i can't summon the Eidolon when the summoned monster is out.You can't use your SLA to summon monsters when your Eidolon is around. The same goes in reverse. No bringing in the Eidolon if you used your SLA to summon monsters. it essentially uses the same energy and interferes with each other. Now if you picked the summon monster spell as taking up one of your known spell slots then that's different. You can have your Eidolon out and then cast as a full around action to summon monsters.
This is actually incorrect, you CAN call the eidolon after you use the "Summon Monster" class ability, Calling your Eidolon DOES require 1 minute (10 rounds). So it's difficult to create the situation.
However, expect table variation, many GMs will read it as "intended" as Amanda says, I don't know the intent I can only speak to what the rules say.
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If your Eidolon is present, for any reason, you cannot use your Summon Monster spell-like ability. You can call or summon your Eidolon while you have creatures summoned from the spell-like ability.
"using the ability" refers the action of summoning the creature. otherwise it would say "while you have any creatures summoned from this ability you cannot summon your eidolon or the summon Eidolon spell.
This question has come up before.
The short answer is that if you are using your SLA, you are using your link to your Eidolon & therefore can not call your Eidolon, any more than you can Summon a Monster while your Eidolon is out.
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Yeah, it's funny how people are trying to say that you can bring out the Eidolon after using the Summon SLA just because the rules don't explicitly spend extra pages/space in the books saying that it doesn't work in reverse. If the Eidolon is out, the Summon SLA can't work or be in effect, as the power drawn for both abilities are supposed to be from the same pool/source. Of course, the broken archetype allows it (as if Summoner wasn't broken enough, right?), but not with the standard Summoner.
GM: "It's illegal to rob and kill a person after you just saved them from being mugged by some street thug."
Advocates for Summon Eiedolon after using SLA: "But it doesn't say that it's illegal for me to rob and kill the person BEFORE I deal with the street thug!"
Come on guys, stop trying to use insane technicalities on something that should be obvious to anyone with a shred of common sense. Asmodeus would be proud of you, though.
Worst straw man ever. That would be an apt analogy if the character attempting these actions had no levels of the summoner class.
The RULES SPECIFICALLY STATE that you cannot use your Summon Monster ability WHILE the Eidolon is summoned. The call Eidolon ability, and Summon Eidolon spell, don't have that text.
If you couldn't use Call Eidolon or Summon Eidolon they should mention it.
The rules state that you CAN do the following.
"Use the summon monster spell-like ability"
Use the call Eidolon ability
use the summon Eidolon spell
Use the Summon monsters SLA While you have creatures summoned by it*
The rules say you can't do the following.
Use the summon monster spell-like ability while you're eidolon is present
*have more than one "spell" worth of summoned creatures from the SLA out at one time. The new "casting" replaces all creatures summoned by the previous one.
People can argue intent till they are blue in the face. The summoner class is well written, nearly everything in it is worded very well, and very clearly. Arguing that you can't use the abilities as they are written is arguing personal preference, NOT rules.
my personal opinion is that Call Eidolon should not work, and summon eidolon should work, that is how I choose to play my summoner.
I would not prevent someone from calling their Eidolon while they have an active summon monster effect, because the rules allow it, despite my opinion that it shouldn't be allowed to work. This is PFS, please follow the rules.
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As Benisolve has mentioned up thread...paraphrasing: since both the summon Eidolon and the Summon monster ability draw from the same power of the Summoner character, you can either use one, or you can use the other. "
Drakeroberts, I do not think you will find much table variation on this one. It's pretty air tight.
I remember from the Play test version of the Summoner, to the one in the APG, one of the things people were worried about was a summoner summoning his Eidalon, and then using his Summon Monster SLA to toss more monsters out there. So in the final version of the summoner class the developers came up with this simple solution: you either have your eidalon out or you have your SLA monsters out not both.
I hope this helps
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Elyas, Benis is the angry one who thinks they should be both allowed at the same time. I think you misread him quoting someone else. If he brought that broken logic to a PSOP table, it wouldn't work. It was a PSOP officer who first correctly answered the question, and the developers of the game have spoken on it in the past. Either way, Death Sentencer has accepted the ruling made, and understands that using "it didn't exactly mention the reverse" doesn't fly. Players who try to slip things through the cracks and game the system, because the writers of the books aren't writing in "legalese" taking up seven pages to describe one ability... are the ones who get the eye rolls and sighs from everyone else at the table.
I resent being called angry, but whatever. I laid out how the rules are written and what that means. I also said I didn't fully agree with it.
Apparently Jason didn't intend that either, I find it surprising that the wording is omitted from the call Eidolon and Summon Eidolon wording if the intent is that they couldn't be used.
As a PFS GM I will follow the rules as they are written.
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As a PFS GM... I, and most other GMs, will stick with the game developers' rulings. The wording isn't there, because as others have stated, they shouldn't have to spend pages and pages of room explaining things. If they did that for every little rule that a power gamer tried to exploit, the books would probably twice or three times the size. It already says that the ability can't be used while the Eidolon is out, so once the Eidolon pops out from either the Summon Eidolon or standard calling of the Eidolon, it's gone... you can no longer use the summoned monster. That summoned monster is from/part of the SLA which can't be used in the presence of the Eidolon.
The Lore Master ability of the Archivist Bard is missing explanations that the developers forgot to put into the writing about how it functions exactly as the Standard Bard's Lore Master ability, and yet we still let it work as per the developers' intent. Why would they list the exception to the rule in the Master Summoner Archetype (which is banned for us PFS folk anyway, but it's still there and written)? Why are you going to treat the obviously broken "interpretation" due to lack of needless explanation? Is it because you play a Summoner and just want to keep on power gaming?
Do I need to explain to you that it's wrong to "rob and kill" a person as well as "kill and rob" a person? Come on, bro... COME ON. Please tell me you don't need that kind of explaining.
Rob and Kill vs Kill and Rob doesn't have anything to do with this discussion.
The order of operations matters sometimes, this is a time that, as written, it matters.
killing someone is illegal, robbing someone is illegal.
Calling your Eidolon is legal, Summoning Creatures is legal.
This example doesn't equate at all. Come on bro, come on, please tell me you can see how far from relevant your "example" is.
I have already said in this thread that I responded with what was written, Jason's posts are contradictory to the written ability. I accept that ruling and will run it that way in the future.
Now as an aside. Please refrain from attempting to show me in a negative light by saying I'm arguing for something with the desire to abuse it. Or that I'm angry, or insinuating that I don't know that murder and robbery are wrong. Personal attacks don't get us anywhere. I'm not going to attempt to determine your motives, but your language in this thread is hostile towards me.