Tarrasque simulacrum CR

[Wind Chime]

Ok what CR would you give for a Simulacrum of a Tarrasque? Do you think it would be an appropriate threat for a 15th level party (AB:22 6 attacks,20 regen, 40 AC, 260HP)?

[Avianfoo]

See Monster Creation.

[EWHM]

Simulacrums are repaired through a costly alchemical procedure. As a GM I interpret that to mean they can ONLY be repaired thusly. Therefore no simulacrum will have regeneration (and they can't be healed with ordinary spells or even with construct-repairing spells.

[JuJu Tiki]

Simulacrum wrote:

A complex process requiring at least 24 hours, 100 gp per hit point, and a fully equipped magical laboratory can repair damage to a simulacrum.

100 x 259 = 25,900 gold to fully repair your simulacrum

[ArmouredMonk13]

CR High encouter.

[Claxon]

It is arguable that infact if the base creature has regeneration or fast healing that the ability in fact continues to function. Whether or not this is conflict with the statement in the description of the spell about repairing the simulacrum is something that may be left up to the GM.

If the Tarrasque simularcum does keep it's regeneration (which can never be turned off by any means) it is probably a bad challenege for the party. Not because it is too strong, but more because it's simply annoying. The normal Tarrasque can easily be rendered unconcious by almost any optimized 20th level character with relative easy. It has very easy weaknesses to exploit. The only thing good about the Tarrasque is its regeneration and the fact that it has indestructible plot armor that literally keep it from being killed.

You want a good challenge for a party? I've read a thread on here that basically said challenging combats start at about the party's CR+4, and CR+5 to be really certain. So a 15th level party of 4, would fight a CR19 for a challenege. But don't make the mistake of pitting 1 creature against 4. 1 CR19 will still get trashed by 4 players because of action economy. Better to make a 4 man party of 15th level characters fight 4 creatures of CR15 each. That should be an approximately equal fight in terms of power.

[Wind Chime]

JuJu Tiki wrote:

Simulacrum wrote:

A complex process requiring at least 24 hours, 100 gp per hit point, and a fully equipped magical laboratory can repair damage to a simulacrum.

100 x 259 = 25,900 gold to fully repair your simulacrum

I have never got that it would cost 7500 (15HD) to make a new tarrasque simulacrum so why bother repairing it.

I was more interested in the idea of lots of Simulacrums of threats that would normally put down the party, I can never throw a demon lord at a party but I could perhaps throw it's simulacrum.

[EWHM]

The repair expense and difficulty is one of the major balancing factors of the simulacrum. Accordingly, I don't let anyone get around it. I also don't allow ANY repeatable means of getting a wish for less than 25K GP.
The most common users of the repair rule for simulacrums are the simulacrums themselves. You see, the creator can always make a new simulacrum of Elena the mystic theurgist for 5000 gp, but the simulacrum HERSELF cares about her own existence. She's got a personality (heavily derivative of the original), and a motive to stick around. She's also VERY VERY loathe to get into any sort of close assault.

[The Saltmarsh 6]

The Tarrasque can easily be rendered unconcious by almost any optimized 20th level character with relative easy
Statements like this make me think that there are serious flaws with the game mechanics
No one character should be able to take on a Tarrasque

[Claxon]

The Saltmarsh 6 wrote:

The Tarrasque can easily be rendered unconcious by almost any optimized 20th level character with relative easy

Statements like this make me think that there are serious flaws with the game mechanics
No one character should be able to take on a Tarrasque

Look up the beastmass thread on this forum. They actually go throuh the process of building characters to compete on beating up not only the Tarrasque, but eight other of the "toughest" creatures in the beastiary over the course of three days (IIRC). Some of it gets to be a bit ridiculous, but the point being that the Tarrasque is a thought problem. And usually the problem is most easily solved by: teleport it to another plane where it's somebody else's problem.

The problem isn't the game mechanics either, it's that the Tarrasque has been built up as some sort of insurmountable challenge when in reality it's an inconvience. The Tarrasque can't fly, it doesn't have any offensive special abilities. It has an impressive list of immunities and DR/15 epic. If you can muster an AC of only 56 at level 20, which isn't very difficult, you in fact can't even be hit by the mighty Tarrasque except on a natural 20. Sure DR 15/epic is nothing to laugh at, but compared to the 50 points of damage a 20th level barbarian can deal per attack (which he will do on a charge pounce to get a full attack) it wont matter as much.

[The Saltmarsh 6]

Well if thats the case then the tarrasque needs to ne restated as it's listed as cr 25
And sorry that should not be an inconvenience it should be a serious threat to any party of characters.
But the real problem is the tarrasque was stated when the game was new and since then there's been various books released with loads of new feats classes spells and traits which totally overpower characters allowing for the famous power creep in to the game