The utility blaster: sorc 1 / wizard x


Advice


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I would like to discuss the cross blooded, tattooed, admixture wizard. This is not a new idea: many others have posted the idea of taking a cross blooded Draconic/Orc Sorceror for level 1 and then switching to an Evocation (Admixture) wizard for the next 19 levels, resulting in a wizard who has all of the normal cosmic tools of other wizards coupled with +2 fire spell damage /die with the ability to change the fire damage to any element type.

I'd like to discuss how to optimize him and then how he compares to a standard wizard.

By adding Varisian Tattoo, his evocation spells also are cast at class level +1.
By taking the Magical Knack trait, his wizard spells will all be cast at full hit dice level.
Varisian Tattoo also gives a familiar at level 1 who will progress with his wizard levels. In fact, the tattoo familiar is superior to a regular familiar as it can be kept 100% safe at all times.

So the only draw back to this plan is the delay in wizard spell progression (but NOT spell power) by 1 level.

It seems to me that by delaying wizard spell progression by 1, this character actually gains a great deal of versatility in that he can now lay down very effective blasts.

At level 1 he relies on his longbow (Elf) and casting enlarge person 3 times a day.

At level 2, he is able to cast 7 first level spells per day (admittedly 3 are enlarge person). Note that his Burning Hands spell at level 2 does 3d4 +6 points of damage vs the worthless 2d4 of a standard wizard as the Varisian Tattoo increases caster level by 1 for his evocation spells.

At level 2, 12 points of aoe damage that can be of any elemental type is pretty dang good.

At level 6 he can cast a "fire" ball of any elemental type that deals 7d6 +14 damage or 38 on average vs 6d6 or 21 that a standard wizard would do.

What do you think? Is this more effective than a standard wizard? Am I underestimating the impact of delaying spell progression by 1 level? Also, what feats would you recommend? Is my stat distribution optimal?

Class: Sorceror (1)/Wizard(x)
Race: Elf

20 pt buy

Str: 8
Dex: 16
Con: 12
Int: 19
Wis: 10
Cha: 10

Traits: Magical Knack, Warrior of Old
Initiative: +9
Level 1
Sorceror: Draconic/Orc cross blooded and Varisian Tattooed
Class abilities:
+2/die to all fire damage spells
+1 caster level to evocation spells
Tattoo familiar (+4 initiative)
Spell: enlarge person (3 /day)
Picks up Bluff and UMD as class skills, which is amusing

Level 2
Wizard: Evocation (Admixture) specialization
Class abilities:
Can change any spell damage to a different element
Tattoo familiar advances with wizard levels
Extensive knowledge skills allow evaluation of elemental resistances and weaknesses of opposing creatures

Grand Lodge

It's always been my contention that the bloodline bonus only counts for the sorcerer spells.


Not enough time for a full critique, but this caught my eye -- how does a 10 Ch sorceror cast 1st level spells?


therealthom wrote:
Not enough time for a full critique, but this caught my eye -- how does a 10 Ch sorceror cast 1st level spells?

Ah. Fair. Although it seems rather trivial to address that problem, no?


I do not believe Crossblooded and Tattooed stack, since both alter/change bloodline powers.


LazarX wrote:
It's always been my contention that the bloodline bonus only counts for the sorcerer spells.

Ah. Also fair.

However, while your interpretation of the rules is absolutely reasonable, it is not RAW and therefore a bit of a house rule, no?

Seems like under PFS rules I could do this. Am I wrong?


LazarX wrote:
It's always been my contention that the bloodline bonus only counts for the sorcerer spells.

Your contention is contrary to the officially published rules.


Azten wrote:
I do not believe Crossblooded and Tattooed stack, since both alter/change bloodline powers.

Ah. I think you be wrong, me hearty:

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nzt9?Sorcerer-Archtype-combos

As that dude says, cross blooded just provides more options and does not actually alter any powers.


Looking at Crossblooded, it does seem like it would stack as long as you accepted that you don't get to choose your 1st level bloodline power because Tattooed replaces it completely.

I just don't think it should stack, since Crossblooded DOES change how your blodline powers work. Adding more options is a change.


Well, friend, the bottome line is that it looks like we agree it is legal. I disagree that cross blooded changes the bloodline powers... More options is not a forced change.

It sounds like there is concern that this build does not really follow the rules INTENT... And is, perhaps, a bit "munchkiny", if you will excuse the word.

That is a very fair concern and is worth discussing... However I am convinced that the build is legal according to RAW (as long as I bump Charism to 12).

I am little more interested in discussing the effectiveness of the build vs a standard wizard.

Sovereign Court

That is the most common way to get the most out of a blaster type caster actually. Draconic/Orc Blooded is usually one of the only really mechanically optimized reasons to be a Crossblooded Sorcerer.


Morgen wrote:
That is the most common way to get the most out of a blaster type caster actually. Draconic/Orc Blooded is usually one of the only really mechanically optimized reasons to be a Crossblooded Sorcerer.

Concur, sir! And allowing me to change all of those fire spells into acide damage is huge.

What do you think of the rest of the build? Is it a good trade to delay wizard spell progression by 1 level for all of the above?

Shadow Lodge

What schools will you give up?


I am playing a wizard like that right now and am having a blast *pun intended*. Some pointers from my ingame experience:

-lesser metamagic rods are quite cheap and very powerful; the goblin fire drum is great for your familiar if you get some performace (percussion) ranks
-you will do insane damage- to the point where you GM might think about increasing challenge ratings of encounters; this can get quite ennoying for other players! Be generous with buff spells!
-scrolls are awesome for utility spells, in particualr lvl 1 scrolls

There is a recent guide on this forum (blockbuster wizard) which might give you some extra ideas.


ArmouredMonk13 wrote:
What schools will you give up?

Necromancy and Enchantment for sure.

I have access to plenty of the best spells without those 2...


MrRed wrote:

I am playing a wizard like that right now and am having a blast *pun intended*. Some pointers from my ingame experience:

-lesser metamagic rods are quite cheap and very powerful; the goblin fire drum is great for your familiar if you get some performace (percussion) ranks
-you will do insane damage- to the point where you GM might think about increasing challenge ratings of encounters; this can get quite ennoying for other players! Be generous with buff spells!
-scrolls are awesome for utility spells, in particualr lvl 1 scrolls

There is a recent guide on this forum (blockbuster wizard) which might give you some extra ideas.

HOT! Will check that out... I have googled the poop out of this topic and somehow missed that thread.

Glad this will work!

Sovereign Court

I'd suggest at least a tiny bit of charisma so you don't look too horrifically cheesy. After all your picking up class skill access to some nice charisma based skills. Maybe drop the Int to an 18 and nudge up the Charisma and Wisdom a tiny bit so you can use your sorcerer slots and counter your -2 from Cross blooded.

Your first level sorcerer spell could even be True Strike, Gravity Bow, Magic Weapon, Identify, Detect Secret Doors or even Feather Fall. Something odd and yet somehow useful at odd times.


Overall I think there isn't much wrong with your build, except:

Gelmir wrote:
At level 1 he relies on his longbow (Elf) and casting enlarge person 3 times a day.

Using a longbow as a caster is a big advantage for a level 1 wizard or sorc. But you should read the text of the Enlarge Person spell. Enlarge Person will not increase your damage with a longbow because any missiles return to their normal size when they leave your possession. It also will decrease your chance to hit by -2, 1 for size and 1 for the dex penalty. It will also drop your AC from 13 (or 14 if you are using armor like a haramaki) to 11 (or 12). If you have a barbarian or fighter in your party, cast it on them, but never yourself.

If you are looking for a spell that will increase your bow damage, try Gravity Bow.

Since you are an elf, I particularly like the spell Blend. If you are using that I would spend your other trait on something that makes Stealth a class skill.

However, ultimately you have a very poor AC at 1st level, and perhaps mage armor. Mage armor is the most effective defensive spell you have at 1st level, and it works against incorporeal creatures. It will still be worth casting occasionally at high levels.

The other way to go would be to get your wizard level at 1st level, your first sorc level at 2nd, and then wizard levels from then on. If you get an arcane bond it can be your longbow, which makes it masterwork. Though it sounds like you are going for a familiar instead, which is fine.

Peet


Morgen wrote:

I'd suggest at least a tiny bit of charisma so you don't look too horrifically cheesy. After all your picking up class skill access to some nice charisma based skills. Maybe drop the Int to an 18 and nudge up the Charisma and Wisdom a tiny bit so you can use your sorcerer slots and counter your -2 from Cross blooded.

Your first level sorcerer spell could even be True Strike, Gravity Bow, Magic Weapon, Identify, Detect Secret Doors or even Feather Fall. Something odd and yet somehow useful at odd times.

+1. An 11 cha would give you 4 cantrips you wouldn't have to prepare as a wizard (maybe something from your opposed schools?) and 2 1st level spells. A 12 would give you another casting per day, and a bonus on those cha skills wizards don't get. 8 cantrips a day isn't much, but it's twice a good as 4! lol

You'll get cantrips with a 10, but 11 or 12 is better, as long as you're dipping, anyway.

I wouldn't drop the int, myself. You only need wis for perception (you're an elf, so it evens out) and will saves (you're stacking 2 and 2 at 2nd level, so it again doesn't really hurt much). You could drop your str to 7 and get 2 points to put in cha. If you took true strike, your strength wouldn't make much difference on those occasions when you attack.


While you can take Varisian Tattoo Feat for the CL boost, the Tattooed Sorceror Archetype would conflict with Cross-blooded, as they are modifying the same features: Tattooed Sorceror is replacing the 1st bloodline power, while Cross-blooded is modifying that class feature to have a choice of both Bloodlines' powers. Tattooed Sorceror is also replacing the Bloodline Feat while Cross-blooded is modifying that Feature to use both Blood-lines' lists. If you take Tattooed Sorceror, you are missing out on the function of the Cross-blooded Archetype, which is why the rules for mixing Archetypes forbids that, because Archetypes are always to be taken as an entire package yet combining Crossblooded and Tattooed would result in some Crossblooded features being expressed but not others. If an Archetype was just giving you an ADDITIONAL feature or option that didn't affect the function of a base class ability then that can't conflict with other archetypes, but when they change the function of core class abilities, then that can conflict with other archetypes.


If you want a familiar just take Skill Focus: Knowledge(Any) and Eldritch Heritage: Arcane(Familiar),
some abilities (and qualifications from Improved Familiars) lag behind by 2 levels but that's not a big deal,
the familiar's HPs/Saves/BAB/Skills/HD-dependent mechanics all use your full stats, not Eldritch Heritage's effective class level.


There was a recent thread/guide on the 'blockbuster wizard' which mentions this dip. I'm wondering if waiting on the sorcerer level until after getting access to fireball would be better.

Sovereign Court

Nah, it works really well with even just burning hands or scorching ray.

Oh I didn't mention this before but remember that if you take Magical Knack your Varisian Tatoo won't increase the caster level for your Evocation spells. The +1 from it prevents Magical Knack from activating assuming that you were applying Knack to your wizard spells.

Just FYI. Caster level can never go over hit dice while including the Magical Knack bonus.


Quandary wrote:
While you can take Varisian Tattoo Feat for the CL boost, the Tattooed Sorceror Archetype would conflict with Cross-blooded, as they are modifying the same features: Tattooed Sorceror is replacing the 1st bloodline power, while Cross-blooded is modifying that class feature to have a choice of both Bloodlines' powers. Tattooed Sorceror is also replacing the Bloodline Feat while Cross-blooded is modifying that Feature to use both Blood-lines' lists. If you take Tattooed Sorceror, you are missing out on the function of the Cross-blooded Archetype, which is why the rules for mixing Archetypes forbids that, because Archetypes are always to be taken as an entire package yet combining Crossblooded and Tattooed would result in some Crossblooded features being expressed but not others. If an Archetype was just giving you an ADDITIONAL feature or option that didn't affect the function of a base class ability then that can't conflict with other archetypes, but when they change the function of core class abilities, then that can conflict with other archetypes.

Well, as I wrote above, I very much disagree with your ruling. Cross blooded is merely adding more options... It is not forcing you to take x power and then conflicting with Varisian. The point of the archetype rules is to prevent 2 archetypes dictating the same choice for a particular power/feat.

Cross blooded dictates nothing.

So I think mixing the two is on firm ground both RAW and RAI.

But after thinking about everyone's comments, it seems like there are enough players out there who are uncomfortable with this build that it is probabaly more trouble than it is worth to actually bring it to a table. And if it turns out to be a destroyer of worlds, it will exacerbate the problem.

The "Blockbuster" wizard seems plenty effective and no one can question the legality. If I decide to play a blaster type, I'll probably just do that.

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