Overrun basics

[Pathmaker]

Hi All,

Scenario: Imaging a 5' wide hallway. Hero is in square 1, two kobolds in square 3 and 4. Hero performs Overrun against CMD 12 and rolls 18. Assume Hero has no applicable feats. What happens?

What if Hero had rolled 13?

What if Hero had rolled 23?

[anthonydido]

I have never seen this scenario but this is how I would rule it in my campaign.

I would give him the option of overrunning 1 or both of the kobolds in one action as long as he has the movement to reach the other side of the second one. If he chooses to only overrun the first kobold and succeeds by less than 5, I would shift the first kobold over a square and put the player in the middle. If he passes by 5 or more, same thing except the kobold is knocked prone. If he fails, he is stopped in front of the first kobold.

If he opts to try for both I would increase the CMD by 5 for the second one because of the difficulty. If he fails the second one then he is still in the middle. If he passes the second one by less than 5 then both kobolds are in their initial positions and the player can continue movement up to his speed. If he passes by 5 or more then second kobold is prone and player finishes movement.

Also, assuming this is a basic overrun, kobolds get AoOs which could make the overruns more difficult. Or they could just let him pass. Or, a slightly better enemy tactic, the first one lets him pass while the second tries to stop him and hold him in a flanked position.

[Claxon]

The first kobold lets him pass and the 2nd uses an attack of oppurtunity to trip him (which gets a bonus to trip since the enemy is charging).

[ErrantPursuit]

Scenario Results: Hero rolls a 13
Hero advances to sq 3, provokes an AoO and then successfully overruns Kobold 1. Hero must now make a check against Kobold 2 and provokes a second AoO.

Scenario Results: Hero rolls 18 or 23
Hero advances to sq 3, provokes an AoO and then successfully overruns Kobold 1, knocking it prone. Hero must now make a check against Kobold 2 and provokes a second AoO.

Either way the Hero must check against the next creature's CMB. RAW there is no penalty for successive overruns. However, if the second overrun attempt is failed in this scenario the Hero ends up stopped in sq 2, exactly as if Hero had failed against Kobold 1. If the Kobolds were in sq 3 and 5, then Hero would end up stopped in sq 4 and be flanked.

[Pathmaker]

Thanks all, it seemed basic, great answers.

ErrantPursuit wrote:

However, if the second overrun attempt is failed in this scenario the Hero ends up stopped in sq 2, exactly as if Hero had failed against Kobold 1.

Interesting, so you would nullify the first success with kobold 1?

[Pizza Lord]

Quote:

RAW there is no penalty for successive overruns.

Basic Overrun is a standard action, so very rarely should you ever see a successive overrun without having multiple standard actions.

This means that if two enemies are lined up one behind the other and the first one tries to prevent the Overrun, you will not get past the second.

When you attempt the maneuver, you provoke the AoO (unless you have appropriate feats), then the first enemy chooses whether to let you pass or try and stop you. If he lets you pass, that does not use up your standard action and you can try to Overrun the second enemy (who gets an AoO) and might let you pass by too.

If the first enemy tries to stop you and you succeed by less than 5 you will technically move through his square but you will be unable to Overrun the next enemy and will have to move to the nearest open square. In this example that is back in front of the first kobold, though it need not always be the case depending on if they were in a doorway to a room or there was an alcove beside them.

If the first enemy tries to stop you and you knock him prone, then you can stop/stand in his square, but you still couldn't pass the second kobold because that would require another standard action.

[anthonydido]

Pizza Lord wrote:

If the first enemy tries to stop you and you knock him prone, then you can stop/stand in his square, but you still couldn't pass the second kobold because that would require another standard action.

You can only stand in the same square if they are "helpless". Prone does not inherently mean helpless.

I agree with the rest of your post per RAW. I posted what I would do because it makes more sense that if you overrun the first one that you would be in between the two kobolds, not shunted magically in front of the one you just ran past.

[Muzzy]

Without Improved Overrun, the target has the choice to let you pass or stop you. Either choice results in an AOO from the target.

Scenario 1: The target does not let the player pass. The target gets an AOO. After that resolves, the player exceededs the CMB roll by 5, so the target falls prone and the players movement can continue to it's max. Moving past the second target now requires an acrobatics roll, and triggers another AOO from both Kobolds with bonuses for flanking.

Scenario 2: The target allows the player to pass. The overrun attempt is spent. The player can continue to move past the second target, but that requires an acrobatics roll, and triggers another AOO from both Kobolds with bonuses for flanking.

Without some other kind of feat or special ability, the player can only overrun a single target. See: Charge Through for an example.

If the player can't continue past the second target, the player has to stop at the nearest safe square, which would be in front of the first target. Although a DM might see it as you pushing one of the kobolds into a safe adjacent square. See rules about Bull Rush or Tumbling/Acrobatics to see how this ought to work.