Does metamagic work on the awaken spell

[MrRed]

Question in title.

IMHO RAW it should be fine - and scary at the same time: An empowered maximized awaken spell would give your bonzai 18+1/2*3d6 in all mental attributes. Or any MM awakened kitten could explain advanced magical theory to the comparably stupid archmages...

[Ximen Bao]

I like it.

[Drachasor]

RAW, it should work. However, That maxes out at 27 intelligence, and most Archmages will be smarter than that (18+6+4=28 at level 16 and int can be improved beyond that). However, you could have Professor Pupbeard teach at the academy once he gains several wizard levels.

Hmm, the thought of a Rock of Awakening has crossed my mind now. X times per day, hit something with the rock and it Awakens. It amuses me.

[MrRed]

Drachasor wrote:

...Professor Pupbeard teach at the academy...

Need to remember that one :)

My thoughts go more into the direction of having a campaign where the king is an awakened tree. With these attributes he could be outsmarting most.

[The Purity of Violence]

No, it doesn't work like this. IIRC this came up in 3.x and was shot down.

the Awaken spell makes a plant or animal awakened. There's no such thing as enpowered or maximizied 'awakened'.

Being awakened gives the subject certain stats, but the spell itself does not grant, for example, 3d6 Int, so the score is not subject to metamagic.

[Ximen Bao]

The Purity of Violence wrote:

No, it doesn't work like this. IIRC this came up in 3.x and was shot down.

the Awaken spell makes a plant or animal awakened. There's no such thing as enpowered or maximizied 'awakened'.

Being awakened gives the subject certain stats, but the spell itself does not grant, for example, 3d6 Int, so the score is not subject to metamagic.

That's about as convincing as saying that being hit by a fireball will deal the subject certain damage, but the spell itself does not deal, for example, 10d6 damage, so the damage is not subject to metamagic.

Cutting the numbers from the spell effect and drawing a barrier between them doesn't work there or in most cases.

[Zhayne]

I would say it doesn't work, under the same basis as empowering a summon spell. You increase the number of summoned creatures you get, but you don't 1.5x any of their stats or attacks.

Plus, frankly, it's kind of silly.

[BigDTBone]

The Purity of Violence wrote:

the Awaken spell makes a plant or animal awakened. There's no such thing as enpowered or maximizied 'awakened'.

Being awakened gives the subject certain stats, but the spell itself does not grant, for example, 3d6 Int, so the score is not subject to metamagic.

It would seem you have not read this spell recently because it does exactly this.

Zhayne wrote:

I would say it doesn't work, under the same basis as empowering a summon spell. You increase the number of summoned creatures you get, but you don't 1.5x any of their stats or attacks.

Yea, I wonder what the balance ramifications of adding spell level costs to Summon Monster to get more of that monster out without changing their stat blocks.

Summon Monster x+2 wrote:

This spell functions like summon monster 1, except that you can summon one creature from the x+2 level list, 1d3 creatures of the same kind from the x+1 level list, or 1d4+1 creatures of the same kind from the x level list.

Oh, its a trap choice already built into the game. No MM feat required.

[wraithstrike]

RAW it seems to be legal, but I doubt it is RAI. I would not try it in a game, and expect for a GM to allow it.

[Paladin of Baha-who?]

It's not a trap choice -- sometimes it's much better to have multiple weaker creatures, because of action economy.

[Drachasor]

wraithstrike wrote:

RAW it seems to be legal, but I doubt it is RAI. I would not try it in a game, and expect for a GM to allow it.

I am not sure it is something to be concerned over, really.

[Sowde Da'aro]

dot

[LazarX]

Ximen Bao wrote:

The Purity of Violence wrote:

No, it doesn't work like this. IIRC this came up in 3.x and was shot down.

the Awaken spell makes a plant or animal awakened. There's no such thing as enpowered or maximizied 'awakened'.

Being awakened gives the subject certain stats, but the spell itself does not grant, for example, 3d6 Int, so the score is not subject to metamagic.

That's about as convincing as saying that being hit by a fireball will deal the subject certain damage, but the spell itself does not deal, for example, 10d6 damage, so the damage is not subject to metamagic.

Cutting the numbers from the spell effect and drawing a barrier between them doesn't work there or in most cases.

Awakened does not grant the creature stats, it's the after affect of being changed to an awakened creature. Awakened is essentially a form of polymorph spell. You can't empower it any more than you can polymorph.

[Drachasor]

LazarX wrote:

Awakened does not grant the creature stats, it's the after affect of being changed to an awakened creature. Awakened is essentially a form of polymorph spell. You can't empower it any more than you can polymorph.

Not part of the polymorph subschool. There's no rule reason why Empower or Maximize wouldn't work.

The easy fix would be to make Awaken apply a template if it was deemed that maximizing or empowering it was problematic.

[MrRed]

Ok, while there is no full agreement I appreciate the different schools of thought here. After rereading the spell and the MM feats I tend to stick to my original opinion (works RAW but you should talk to your GM!). I do see, however, the merit of treating the spell as if it granted an "awakened template". E.g. the party's druid wants to take an awakened whatever via leadership you could just assign avarage stats or buy them via the standard point by system.