Ive been reading it as option 2. Not only does it make sense from a realism standpoint (Ace Ventura saved repeatedly against the poison darts, but as he got hit more and more he eventually passed out), but it makes poison actually worthwhile if you build for it.
Actually now that this has been brought up, im gonna have to run an encounter with blowpipe using enemies and slow working poison :)
As for builds, you pretty much need sticky poison to make it at all practical. Running around attacking once, then reapplying poison is just not effective, especially since poison in general is a bit sub par to begin with.
Id say poisoned food would depend on the type of poison. If you somehow managed to save vs arsenic, you can be sure you would experience alot of choking and pain at the very least.
If it was something like a sedative which doesnt set in emideatly, you could concievably pour like 10 doses into a meal, then have the person slowly raise the DC as he was eating.
As far as I remember multiple exposures to the same poison raises the DC (I don't remember by how much).
Simple solution: Play a Dwarf. The have higher Con helps, not to mention the +2 bonus on saves vs poison :)
According to the Paizo FAQ on poison written by Jason Bulmahn on March 22, 2011 listed here, the first option you present, side 1, is the way it works.
Here is the important quote from the FAQ blog: "The saving throw DC is increased by +2 for every active dose currently affecting the character. Poisons that were cured, have run through their entire frequency, or were negated with a successful initial saving throw do not increase the DC."
Hopefully that helps.
@Hendelbolaf: So that FAQ pretty much puts poison back to useless. The whole argument for poisons not being worth it is the generally low save DCs. So basically the added DC effect only becomes relevant if the enemy fails that low DC save in the first place.
What would make sense (and how ill likely play it) would be that a poisons duration didnt stop untill the round after the succesful save, giving the poisoner a window of opportunity to atleast get one hit with the added DC.
Ive never seen poison used past the first combat where the user goes "well that was a jolly good waste of gold, guess ill just start saving for a magic item". The FAQ ruling just completely takes them out of any realistic PC use.
I agree with you. In my game I have let the characters that want to develop their own poisons with higher save DC's and higher costs as well. So far it has not broken the game, but if you have a ninja or an alchemist with the right build, then you can have some pretty deadly and efficient clouds of poison gas.
I also do not like some parts of the FAQ but probably for a different reason. I do not like how it says that if you fail the initial save then you have to make the subsequent saves on your turn. This means that the bad guy could poison a character and if the character failed his save, and happens to go next in initiative, then he will have to make another save right away. I was always in favor of making the save once per round, not twice in the first round. I would rather that the poisoned character(s) make a save on the initiative count of the person who did the poisoning.
In a nutshell poison can be very deadly at low levels, but unless you tweak it somehow, the effectiveness drops off dramatically at higher levels.
If this is a home game you should have your GM look at THIS
The formulas are pretty dead on for most of the sample poisons and a lot of GMs I know allow their party to use them.
According to the Paizo FAQ on poison written by Jason Bulmahn on March 22, 2011 listed here, the first option you present, side 1, is the way it works.
Here is the important quote from the FAQ blog: "The saving throw DC is increased by +2 for every active dose currently affecting the character. Poisons that were cured, have run through their entire frequency, or were negated with a successful initial saving throw do not increase the DC."
Hopefully that helps.
I see nothing in your quoted text that supports either interpretation.
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FAQ interpretations:
(lets say DC 14 poisons)
If 6 doses of poison are inflicted at once, do saves for each poison. IF you lose a save, increase the dc by 2 for each remaining save.
lets say one save fails at 14, another at 16, and one more at 18, each one doing it's damage.
Next time you apply poison, it has an initial DC of 20.
Before your next turn, however, is thier turn, and if they don't make a DC 20 save, the poison deals it damage and stays.
If you save against a poison, it's nothing but useless.
The only exception I've seen to these rules is the Deadly Concoction that rogues have access to. They can apply 2 doses at once to a weapon, increasing the DC of the first initial dose by +2.
The best use of poisons I've seen has been with ranged attacks with the returning enchantment. Quite effective when combined with a few other things, like the spell that increases the DC of poisons. I forgot it's name.
If you got enough poison, you could potentially destroy a CR 20 dragon with 3 characters of level 17 in 3 rounds. I've seen it done O.o.
I see nothing in your quoted text that supports either interpretation.According to the Paizo FAQ on poison written by Jason Bulmahn on March 22, 2011 listed here, the first option you present, side 1, is the way it works.
Here is the important quote from the FAQ blog: "The saving throw DC is increased by +2 for every active dose currently affecting the character. Poisons that were cured, have run through their entire frequency, or were negated with a successful initial saving throw do not increase the DC."
Hopefully that helps.
Then I guess you should remove the blindfold you must be wearing like your picture.
Perhaps you could all break the quote down for me then?
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2. The saving throw DC is increased by +2 for every active dose currently affecting the character. Poisons that were cured, have run through their entire frequency, or were negated with a successful initial saving throw do not increase the DC.
3. The character must make a saving throw against every poison affecting him on his turn, but may make the saving throw at any point during his turn. If a poisoned character delays his turn, he must immediately make these saving throws. They are not delayed.
4. Unless the poison has an onset time, the character takes the effect of the poison every time he fails a saving throw against the poison, even when additional doses are inflicted.
5. The total duration of the poison listed in the frequency only increases by half the original duration and only when the initial saving throw against a dose is failed. If the initial saving throw is made, the duration is not increased.
6. If a character is exposed to multiple doses of inhaled and ingested poisons simultaneously, only one save is made at the higher DC. If the save fails, the character is subject to all of the doses, but still only takes the effect once for the failed saving throw. If the save succeeds, the character avoids all of the doses.
7. Finally, if the character is exposed to a poison that is similar, but not the same, such as having a slightly different frequency or DC, it is treated as a different affliction that is tracked separately, even if it has the same name or other identical entries.
step 1. If your hit by a poison, you have a chance, right at the beginning, to negate ALL of it's effects with one save, regardless of consecutive or multiple saves.
step 2. For each additional active poison, increase the DC of all saves from that specific kind of poison by +2. That includes the DC to resist initially (when you your by a poison) and later checks to cure.
step 3. After the initial saving throw, the next save is on the poisoned creatures turn. The save can be taken anytime during the turn. (and there's a sidenote about delaying your turn...)
step 4. If said poison has no on set time, every time you fail a save you take the damage that the poison deals. Including additional poisons (so if you got hit by 5 arrows at once, all poisoned, and you failed all of those saves, you would take the damage 5 times over)
step 5. If you succeed against an initial save against a poison, it has absolutely no effects. Thats including increasing the duration of the existing poison, it doesn't do it.
step 6. Multiple inhaled/ingested poisons at the same time are all group together for the initial save, and then are tracked seperatly. If you take, for example, 5 doses of arsenic at once down the throat, it only deals 1 doses worth of damage, but it calculated at the higher DC. I believe that the higher DC is including +2 from multiple doses (kinda like deadly concoction, a master rogue talent).
So the math would be:
(Number of doses at once (5) - 1 * 2) + DC of the poison.
step 7. If a poison is any different mechanically speaking, it should be tracked separately.
In the three scenarios that Jason gives, different rules are emphasized. If you want those can be broken down too?
http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lc12?I-Drank-What-An-FAQ-on-Poison