Needed: A how-to guide for PF players

[Captain Marsh]

I'm a huge fan of Pathfinder. For all its quirks and limitations, it is a remarkably intuitive, agile, fun system to play.

The last couple of weeks, reading the message boards and playing with my local group, it's occurred to me that PF is maybe a little better than we are.

Let me explain.

I like to ski. And sometimes people poke fun at me for my lousy, last-generation, dinged-up equipment.

My answer: "My skis may be crummy, but they're at least as good as I am."

In other words, the hardware isn't holding me back.

There was a time in RPGs when the hardware regularly held us all back.

But now -- in metaphorical terms -- our skis are better than we are. the game flows better than a lot of us, myself included, know how to play it.

Some of that is fixed with experience and play-testing.

But I think there are shortcuts and non-intuitive fixes that can make table play better.

Not by continuing to hink the rules, but by offering a sort of primer on how to be a next-generation player.

The rules would include basic things like table etiquette and important foundational rules to understand.

But this splat book for players would also get into things like how to really role-play if you're kind of shy and don't think particularly well on your feet.

What are some short-cuts to coming up with a lively table presence if that kind of thing doesn't come naturally to you?

The book would unravel party strategies and give more advanced examples of how different classes interact.

It could also offer really cool advice for how players can help DMs create a better, more immersive imagined environment.

A basic short chapter might be called something like: "What do you do when it's not your turn?"

Another brief chapter: "If I'm bored, what do I do to help the game?"

Another, longer chapter, might outline the different play styles that are necessary for different genres of play.

Too many players at my table struggle to adapt when we shift from the dungeon to the urban setting, or from the diplomatic session to the battle lines.

Finally, a basic part of the primer would be helping players get past the anti-social crud that gums up otherwise-good gaming groups.

A lot of players just don't get that there's a complex social contract at the table.

The goal is not for your PC to be dominant, or for you to win the most gold or XPs.

The goal is for a group of people to create a shared story and have a crap-load of fun along the way.

So...am I naive?

Or would a short, soft-cover book touching on strategies, play-styles, etiquette and deeper role-playing would level up a lot of game tables?

--Marsh

[Lamontius]

a number of the points you just listed are covered in the Gamemastery Guide put out by Paizo

also the GMing 101 PFS download is quite useful in getting a handle on a number of your points, both as GMs and players

[Chris Lambertz]

Removed an unhelpful post.

[Blueluck]

There's a lot of good advice that can be given, but there are also a great many different ways to play. While I agree that many roleplayers have room for improvement, don't make the mistake of thinking people who play differently are playing poorly. Any RPG publisher who gets too picky (or pushy, or pedantic) about how people play their game tends to turn customers off.

People have already published such material online and in print, however, and it's not usually popular enough to be marketable. A print book is unlikely to succeed. If you feel that you have excellent advice to give, start writing articles. Internet publishing is free and easy, and this forum is a good place to get feedback on your work before publishing.

Here is the most recent article I've read on the subject, 11 Ways to be a Better Roleplayer.

[Wolf Munroe]

I've read a lot of material on how to run an evocative, moody horror campaign (which is what I ideally want to run), but even with the advice under my belt, I still run my campaign in a loud game shop with neither moody lighting, nor props (except maps and Paizo's face cards), nor music.

I love reading about things that could make my game better, and I implement as much of it as I manage, if I like it. Not all of it is right for my game--I can't run dramatic music or turn down the lights, for instance--but I still love reading advice for running a good thematic game, even if I can't make it fit with my game.

I like the advice in the Sword and Sorcery Ravenloft Dungeon Master's Guide for 3.x, for example, but about all I've managed to consistently do that it recommends is assign voices to NPCs, and once or twice use the cut-scene technique it suggests to cut away from the party and narrate mysterious events elsewhere.

I also like the advice in the GameMastery Guide. I should probably read over it again, actually.

In other words, I like occasional products that discuss a "correct" or "encouraged" style of play, even if it isn't necessarily the style I use. It's still a good place to mine for ideas. When it comes to RP materials, they usually get divided into Fluff (flavor-specific materials) and Crunch (mechanics-specific materials), but the third, and less covered aspect is probably "style," which would be materials specific to the applied approach of running and participating in the game. That aspect of the game seems to get a lot less coverage because "there's no wrong way to do it." Just because there is no wrong way to do it, supposedly, doesn't mean suggestions about how it can be done are a bad thing. It's not about saying "you're doing it wrong," but about saying "this is a way it can be done right."

[Captain Marsh]

Yes, I think the "GameMastery" book is great. It's sort of exactly what I have in mind - only a volume aimed at players in particular.

And I think any such guide should certainly point to the many different possible styles of play.

I think a lot of players get that they can play different classes, but haven't been given access to the joys of playing different styles.

The "Ultimate: Pathfinder Player" book wouldn't need to be pedantic or pushy or fussy.

The goal after all is to make the experience as insanely fun as possible.

It's also just not great that each new table-group has to essentially learn their way past all the pitfalls of shared storytelling without much guidance.

Frankly, I wish someone had put a book like this in our hands back in the 70s or 80s.

It would have saved some cool campaigns from imploding, made other campaigns even better -- and perhaps even prevented some ugly moments.

And I'm betting that right now there are tables across the world that are playing PF 10% or 20% better than my table because they've come up with cool approaches that my group just hasn't stumbled across.

One final thought:

I think some groups may have access to more of these ideas because they have active gaming stores, or they can get to conventions, or they're in places where different DMs and players meet and mix and match.

But other groups, like mine, are pretty isolated, and we're introducing new players who've never tried an RPG before -- at least not the table-top kind.

We're sort of like a community theater group in the sticks. Some creative advice and pointers from folks who play really, really well would be insanely helpful.

-marsh

[John Kerpan]

You should look up the website "roleplayingtips". The entire point of the site is to provide help with the type of questions you are asking, and you can even email your questions in and he will look at them and collect feedback from his email list.

[Lincoln Hills]

These references to online sources and various hardbacks in print are helpful, but I agree with Captain Marsh that it might be nice - perhaps as a third-party product - to print a small, friendly, softcover pamphlet that explains in, say, sixteen pages all about how to roleplay: it needn't even be system-specific. Rules for good behavior at the table could alternate with in-game tips such as "you have the right to ask to make Sense Motive checks," "Learn your class's limitations and rely on your fellow players to help you avoid them," and "Even a good GM may be lying to you if there are hidden objects, illusions, or deceitful NPCs involved".

Something that could be carried right next to the CRB at everybody's favorite local game store, and/or bundled with the Beginner's Box.

[Blueluck]

Wolf Munroe wrote:

In other words, I like occasional products that discuss a "correct" or "encouraged" style of play, even if it isn't necessarily the style I use. It's still a good place to mine for ideas. . .

I agree. I love material that makes me a better player.

My comments specifically address the idea of Paizo publishing a book on the subject. I have no objection whatsoever to a Paizo blog on how to be a better player, or a third-party book on the topic. In fact, I think both are good ideas. I'd definitely read Paizo's online advice, and although I probably wouldn't purchase a book, I'd consider such a purchase if it looked exceptionally good.

[Kydeem de'Morcaine]

I believe such products have been tried in the past. I remember seeing them in ages past, but I don't remember what they were called. If someone remembers the names you might try to find old copies somewhere.

Unfortunately, they have not been comercially successful enough to encourage others to try it again. I think part of the reason might be how most people learn the game. The groups like you describe do exist. Where everyone is basically learning the game at the same time. However, I think that is the minority (at least in my experience). Most people join an already existing group and learn more from them than from the book.
Hence the above suggestions for internet sources of some of the same type of material. These forums are another source when you have specific questions.
Since 'publishing' on the internet is basically free. There is a lot of material available. However, you have to remember some of it is crap. I've been frankly horrified by some of the advice I've been given on these forums. The way some people expect me to treat my fiends is just... wow...
But I have to remember for every piece of lousy advice I usually get at least 3 that are good advice. So I keep coming back.