A question about Tiefling / Aasimar bloodlines.

[Jacart]

The heritages or bloodlines listed in Blood of Fiends/Angels have listed alternate skill modifiers and an alternate spell like ability for each heritage. The question is must I take these alternate skill modifiers and the alternate spell like ability when I take the bloodline or may I opt out to keep the default skill modifiers and default spell like ability? Thank you for your time in advance to answering this question.

[blackbloodtroll]

You must.

You may, take other alternate racial traits though, such as those outlined in the Advanced Race Guide.

Review them here, and here.

[LazarX]

Jacart wrote:

The heritages or bloodlines listed in Blood of Fiends/Angels have listed alternate skill modifiers and an alternate spell like ability for each heritage. The question is must I take these alternate skill modifiers and the alternate spell like ability when I take the bloodline or may I opt out to keep the default skill modifiers and default spell like ability? Thank you for your time in advance to answering this question.

It's a complete package, you have to take it all.

[Kahn Zordlon]

speaking of tieflings and aasimars, does holy water work against the evil type of them? Unholy water against the good versions of them? What if they are neutral?

[Jiggy]

When the rules reference "evil outsiders" (as with holy water), it means outsiders with the [evil] subtype, not merely their alignment.

An evil tiefling would be an outsider with the [native] subtype and whose alignment is evil, but would not be considered an "evil outsider".

[Booksy]

Tieflings and Aasimars are not inherently good or evil. They are type Outsider sub type (Native). They are neither Undead or Outsider(Evil) which are effected by Holy Water. Nor are they Outsider(Good), which are effected by Unholy Water.

edit: ninja'd =D

[Kahn Zordlon]

Thanks!

[Midnight_Angel]

Jiggy wrote:

When the rules reference "evil outsiders" (as with holy water), it means outsiders with the [evil] subtype, not merely their alignment.

,

While I am a fervent supporter of this reading... where is this rule stated?

AFAIK, strictly RAW, native outsiders (even Aasimar) with an evil alignment
- are vulnerable to holy water
- are extra vulnerable to Holy Smite
- ping more strongly on Detect Evil (using the Outsider column)

None of these makes much sense IMHO... so, what did I miss?
Where do I find that 'evil' in 'evil outsiders' refers to subtype, rather than alignment?

[GreenDragon1133]

Jacart wrote:

The heritages or bloodlines listed in Blood of Fiends/Angels have listed alternate skill modifiers and an alternate spell like ability for each heritage. The question is must I take these alternate skill modifiers and the alternate spell like ability when I take the bloodline or may I opt out to keep the default skill modifiers and default spell like ability? Thank you for your time in advance to answering this question.

The "Default" is the Default for a reason. If you don't want to use an alternate version, you don't have to.

You can use the 'vanilla' Tiefling stats, and have Infernal ancestor, or a Demon, etc. After all, anyone without those books can.

However, if you want to take part of an alternate package, you have to take it all.

[LazarX]

Midnight_Angel wrote:

Jiggy wrote:

When the rules reference "evil outsiders" (as with holy water), it means outsiders with the [evil] subtype, not merely their alignment.

,

While I am a fervent supporter of this reading... where is this rule stated?

AFAIK, strictly RAW, native outsiders (even Aasimar) with an evil alignment
- are vulnerable to holy water
- are extra vulnerable to Holy Smite
- ping more strongly on Detect Evil (using the Outsider column)

None of these makes much sense IMHO... so, what did I miss?
Where do I find that 'evil' in 'evil outsiders' refers to subtype, rather than alignment?

Neither race has an alignment subtype.

[Derek Vande Brake]

LazarX wrote:

Midnight_Angel wrote:

Jiggy wrote:

When the rules reference "evil outsiders" (as with holy water), it means outsiders with the [evil] subtype, not merely their alignment.

,

While I am a fervent supporter of this reading... where is this rule stated?

AFAIK, strictly RAW, native outsiders (even Aasimar) with an evil alignment
- are vulnerable to holy water
- are extra vulnerable to Holy Smite
- ping more strongly on Detect Evil (using the Outsider column)

None of these makes much sense IMHO... so, what did I miss?
Where do I find that 'evil' in 'evil outsiders' refers to subtype, rather than alignment?

Neither race has an alignment subtype.

While true, Midnight Angel's point still stands - holy water doesn't say, "outsider with the evil subtype," it just says, "evil outsider." An aasimar is an outsider. An evil aasimar is an evil outsider, even without the subtype.

It's why a lawful good demon, if such were possible, would detect for all alignments - it is lawful and good, so it detects as those, but it has the evil and chaotic subtypes, so it detects as those, too. The aasimar might not have the evil subtype, but it would still detect as evil to a paladin (if sufficient power).

[LazarX]

Booksy wrote:

Tieflings and Aasimars are not inherently good or evil. They are type Outsider sub type (Native). They are neither Undead or Outsider(Evil) which are effected by Holy Water. Nor are they Outsider(Good), which are effected by Unholy Water.

Well, they might get wet...maybe catch a cold.

[Derek Vande Brake]

You are begging the question. Quoting someone else who makes the same assumption doesn't prove your point. Proving your point would be quoting a specific rule, or at least a game dev, who says the "evil outsiders" referred to in Holy Water specifically means, "outsiders with the evil subtype."