|
| 46 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the FAQ. 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
HI all,
I've been trauling through the many threads regarding this topic and while I've found one of the developers giving the 40ft range the green light, I'd like someone who has the authority to please answer this once and for all so it's nice and clear.
I think most GMs are logically seeing the obvious typo, but some want some form of official-ness before they allow the thing to have more than a 10' range.
This is not a thread to post your opinions, nor is it to complain about how much you hate gunslingers. The only purpose of this thread is for someone who can make an official "rules call" to do so whilst we wait for it to be added to an official errata (which we all understand - takes time).
If you want to help this effort, please all select it for FAQ (yes, I know it's been selected for FAQ in other threads - still we have no definitive answer).
This thread is so that people who play musket masters (or anyone else who uses this weapon) to be able to quickly and easily link to and pass on to their respective GMs.
Just a note: By telling people not to comment on the thread, you're going to limit the number of FAQ requests you get because without conversation, it's going to drop off the front page and be missed by a good portion of the community.
Ultimately, discussion on a thread helps keep the thread active and ensures more FAQ requests, and doesn't make it anymore difficult to determine what the FAQ answer is because it will come from the Pathfinder Design Team and have a link to the answer on the FAQ pages.
|
|
I think the subject has been highlighted and discussed enough; it just needs a definitive answer.
Good point about the active status of a thread though. I'll keep bumping it and hopefully people will keep requesting it FAQ'd with the button above :)
Ultimately I didn't want another "discussion" thread that gets lost with all the rest. This thread is purely here so that we can get a ruling. Currently, the closest thing we have is this: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l7ns&page=469?Ask-James-Jacobs-ALL-your-Qu estions-Here#23446
Yea, and? I had a post that had 80 FAQ requests that took almost a year to be answered.
|
Jessica Price is going to get really upset with you if you keep *bumping* this.
Just let the conversations come naturally.
Also, my thread requesting an FAQ on the Bastard Sword has over 70 hits, and still no word yet. I wish you the best.
Also also, for the record, I don't think there's anything wrong with the shorter range on the double barrel musket. It's a nice trade off for getting two attacks. And, when you think about it, muskets were terribly inaccurate anyways. Adding a 2nd barrel can't help matters.
Not that it matters for Pathfinder, but a double barrel musket would have a slightly shorter range due to shorter barrel lengths. Musket barrels were heavy, double the barrel would be too heavy to use. Thus, you would need to shorten the barrel lengths which would reduce the effective range.
Since the weight of the *Pathfinder* Double Barrel Musket is not almost doubled I can only guess they have shortened the barrels considerably.
Nefreet, shorter distance is fine but the range is still way too short since it is shorter than the Double Barreled Pistol. It should be 20-30 or 40+higher weight.
- Gauss
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I pointed it out earlier, I'll mention it again (with some elaboration):
Thread bumping on many forums - i.e., coming online solely to 'bump' your post back to the top for attention - is considered poor forum etiquette; on a lot of forums repeated bumping is a 'bannable' offense. Not only that, but because it's a public forum, some people (to an extent, me included) tend to find it rude for someone to believe they can play 'thread police' and ban discussion from a post; if the discussion is irrelevant that's a different matter.
The only 'valid' way for a thread to remain at the top of the forum is for discussion to take place. I'm not certain what the worry is if discussion does take place; the first question is the FAQ item, and it is what will (primarily) be looked at by the design time.
|
|
Given that I've never partaken in a discussion on double-barreled muskets before, I feel exempt from the "NO need to rehash it here" clause. I don't even remember a recent discussion on the matter. Do you have a link?
Why does discussion bother you?
(also, in case you haven't noticed, these replies are helping to keep your post at the top)
Bloodlust, you need to chill. This thread will die and go to the back pages if ti does not have discussion. Discussion helps both to keep the thread bumped and to inform newer members who might not have seen the threads you say are there. Side note, a link to those threads might have helped by giving the newer members a place to go discuss the issue.
You seem to be laboring under a false assumption - that somehow excess discussion somehow has a negative impact on getting an answer.
Logically that makes no sense. That's the point that I was trying to make in my very first response to you.
Discussion ensures that the topic stays on the front page of the forum without relying on bumps (which, in the fifty or so forums that I've participated in, has always been considered poor etiquette); it doesn't 'bury' an FAQ request in any way, the FAQ flags ensure that.
If every person on the forum relied on artificial 'bumping' to keep their questions on the front page, then no one would ever see new topics. I know for certain that there are FAQs that I'd love to see answered as well - some of them I've started - but I'm not going to try and force the topic through rude forum etiquette, or pretend that .
With all that said, I won't be responding further in the thread; this is just a more elaborate form of 'bumping'.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
As Jessica has said discussion is welcome, then I want to know....
Also also, for the record, I don't think there's anything wrong with the shorter range on the double barrel musket. It's a nice trade off for getting two attacks. And, when you think about it, muskets were terribly inaccurate anyways. Adding a 2nd barrel can't help matters.
So you think the range being short is a balance thing, or you just don't think the typo is such a big deal?
|
|
I play a Musket Master in PFS. When I'm not misfiring, she does a lot of damage. IIRC, at level 10, it's something like 1d12+16 each shot. And I have practically every type of bullet or cartridge that exists, so DR is never a problem. Next level I'll be up to 4 attacks/round with Rapid Shot. Against a lot of encounters it's either hit or misfire.
If I were allowed to double the number of attacks I got, I'm sure the increased chance of misfiring would limit my full-round attack sequence anyways, so it might not matter what the range is. But I also don't necessarily think it's a typo or a balance issue. I think it's a realistic depiction of how a double-barreled musket would work.
If they really felt the need to errata it, my suggestion would be to only increase the range to 20ft. That's still good enough for most Gunslingers to stay out of harm's way, and doubling the number of attacks at half range seems like it could be a fair trade off.
But I think it's fine the way it is.
Nefreet, I can tell you it is not a realistic depiction of how a double-barreled musket would work.
I have fired a double barreled musket, its range was worse than a regular musket because of the shortened barrels but still better than a smoothbore pistol because it had longer barrels than the smoothbore single shot pistol.
If you compare a double barreled rifle to a rifled single shot pistol you again wind up with a shortened rifle which still has longer barrels than a single shot pistol.
Note: Musket is usually (properly) a reference to a smoothbore long barreled gun (ie, a rifle without riflings). This is why I am comparing like to like when I compare musket to pistol. However, people do incorrectly call Rifles muskets so I am explaining both possibilities.
Some points about a double barreled gun:
1) Adding a second barrel dramatically increases the weight.
2) To save weight, the barrel length is shortened. The resulting gun is still significantly heavier because there is only so much length shortening possible.
3) With shorter barrels the effective range is significantly cut. However, that range would NOT be 25% of the original. It would be 50-75% depending on length.
Anyhow, translating real life effects into Pathfinder is a pointless exercise since much of Pathfinder has little to do with real world physics. But, at the very least the range for a double barreled musket should be between that of a double barreled pistol and a single barreled musket. It is not.
With that said, if they did nerf the range then that is their design choice but it has nothing to do with reality.
A bit about me: I am not an expert on black powder guns but I own 3 muzzle-loaders (Pistol, Rifle, double barreled shotgun) and I have been to many mountain man rendezvous over the years. One of the old timers that goes to the events that I go to manufactures guns (historical reproductions and custom guns). He brings his gun collection and in many cases demonstrates them. This has given me some experience with a wide variety of old style muzzle-loaders, custom muzzle-loaders, and even a few cannons.
- Gauss
If they really felt the need to errata it, my suggestion would be to only increase the range to 20ft. That's still good enough for most Gunslingers to stay out of harm's way, and doubling the number of attacks at half range seems like it could be a fair trade off.
But I think it's fine the way it is.
20ft is the range of a double barreled pistol, which makes it too short for a double barreled musket. 30ft would be a middle ground range.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Would be cool to hear from the developer if it was indeed a typo, or if it was intended. Just to hear a different viewpoint.
Perhaps the double pistol was supposed to be 10' (half the range of a single) and the double musket was supposed to be 20' (half the range of a single), and they got mixed up.
Official Rules Response
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
FAQ: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1g1#v5748eaic9quu
Double-Barreled Musket: Is the range increment for a double-barreled musket 10 feet? A single-barreled musket's range increment is 40 feet.
"10 feet" is an error, and will be fixed in the next printing of Ultimate Combat. The correct range increment is "40 feet."