When you are wielding two lances and mounted, how much damage does Power Attack grant each weapon?
[There's an infernal little lawyer inside me that made me post the topic. I apologize for this.]
Do not do this thing.
Well it would be no different from a single lance. You simply make two attack rolls with the penalty(One for each lance) and add the damage from power attack. Being mounted doesn't really change this.
Unless, of course, you are charging. I assume this is the important question here: Is the damage from Power Attack doubled on a successful charge and lance attack?
I would presume that it would. After all, Power Attack grants a bonus to your damage roll itself and the doubled damage from the charge is simply "a lance deal double damage".
However, because of the rules of charge, you may only make a single attack at the end of a charge, making two lances completely pointless for charging.
I'm assuming the mounted thing is so it can be wielded in one hand, allowing dual-wielded lances. I think if you read it stupid literally, it would be 75%. However, as hilarious as this would be, I would take all the language concerning off-hand weapons as superceding the language concerning two-handed weapons.
This isn't a charging issue. Being mounted is to allow one to use a lance in one hand, thereby enabling one to wield two lances. Without being mounted, one cannot wield two lances.
Still ... this is probably less controversial than I think. A lance wielded as an off-handed weapon while two-weapon fighting fits pretty clearly into both sentences of Power Attack, which aren't written to be mutually exclusive.
It is thus my initial judgement that a mounted character wielding two lances will receive 150% damage bonus from Power Attack on his primary weapon, and 100% (that is, +50% and -50%) damage bonus from Power Attack on his off-hand weapon.
Does that seem correct?
Hah! Dissent before I even finish the post. Alright, maybe the thread is justified if we already have disagreement.
My thoughts are that Power Attack does not treat two-handed weapons and off-handed weapons as being mutually exclusive, so it seems that an off-handed lance would receive both the +50% and the -50%, resulting in full Power Attack damage.
Dose anyone know where to find the rule that states how to combine percentages? Because in normal math, adding 50% and then subtracting 50% will get you 75%.
I imagine with PF's particular system for multipliers, a halving and a doubling would simply cancel.
Just seems right.
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Well, at best you would have a -4 to each attack (assuming you have the Two Weapon Fighting feat), and the off hand attack would get all of the off-hand stuff, though the primary attack would benefit normally...I guess.
Though, to be honest, I feel kind of dirty just knowing I participated in this thread.
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You cannot use two lances unless you are charging...
..and you cannot use attack with both lances at the end of a charge. A charge is a Standard or Full round action where you may attack ONCE.
As far as damage, the bonus to damage for Strength would be full and the bonus to damage for Power Attack would be 150% (see FAQ). Of course, the bonus is doubled for a charge and quadrupled for a successful critical hit on a charge.
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You cannot use two lances unless you are charging...
Citation needed.
I agree that you add only half your Strength bonus to your off-hand lance. However, the two-weapon fighting rules do not affect the bonus that Power Attack grants.
In a similar scenario, if a dual-kukri fighter obtains Deadly Slice, he can claim his full Strength bonus on his off-hand weapon, yet that doesn't allow him to claim the full damage bonus from Power Attack.
Currently (thanks to help), I think I'm looking at a mounted combatant with two lances, who attacks with a -4 to all attacks, claiming full Strength bonus and 150% Power Attack damage bonus on his primary lance, and half Strength bonus plus 100% Power Attack damage on his off-hand lance.
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We know the primary lance gets 3:1 power attack while mounted and used in 1 hand. If we apply the "off-hand" math wouldn't the second lance get 3:1 halved, or 1.5, which we then round down to 1?
(That's applying the math in the order it's presented in the text: 2:1 increased by 50% to 3:1 then reduce by 50% to 1.5, and then using the standard rules of rounding in PF)
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You cannot use two lances unless you are charging...
..and you cannot use attack with both lances at the end of a charge. A charge is a Standard or Full round action where you may attack ONCE.
Lance: A lance deals double damage when used from the back of a charging mount. While mounted, you can wield a lance with one hand.
You don't have to be charging, just mounted. You don't get the double damage if you aren't charging, but you can still use a lance one-handed. So it is a possible (though silly) tactic.
The second weapon is still an off-hand weapon so the damage is straightforward.
Main hand = 150% (3 at BAB 1-3, 6 at BAB 4-7, etc.)
Off-hand = 50% (1 at BAB 1-3, 2 at BAB 4-7, etc.)
Honestly, I think that FAQ response has created more problems than it solved.
You cannot use two lances unless you are charging...
..and you cannot use attack with both lances at the end of a charge. A charge is a Standard or Full round action where you may attack ONCE.
Lance: A lance deals double damage when used from the back of a charging mount. While mounted, you can wield a lance with one hand.You don't have to be charging, just mounted. So it is a possible (though silly) tactic.
The second weapon is still an off-hand weapon so the damage is straightforward.
Main hand = 150% (3 at BAB 1-3, 6 at BAB 4-7, etc.)
Off-hand = 50% (1 at BAB 1-3, 2 at BAB 4-7, etc.)Honestly, I think that FAQ response has created more problems than it solved.
The second lance is a two-handed weapon and an off-hand weapon. Thus, it would gain both the +50% and the -50%, resulting in +100% Power Attack damage.
We know the primary lance gets 3:1 power attack while mounted and used in 1 hand. If we apply the "off-hand" math wouldn't the second lance get 3:1 halved, or 1.5, which we then round down to 1?
(That's applying the math in the order it's presented in the text: 2:1 increased by 50% to 3:1 then reduce by 50% to 1.5, and then using the standard rules of rounding in PF)
Multiple multipliers are treated as additions (except with movement). If a character has two separate effects that double its damage, then its damage is tripled in total.
@Troubleshooter: I think we are on the same page. The only question I have is your attack penalties don't include the penalties from Power Attack right?
The -4 to both lances is from TWF only right? The power attack penalty is unknown until we determine the characters BAB.
This is correct.
When you are wielding two lances and mounted, how much damage does Power Attack grant each weapon?
Both weapons do no damage, because a lightning bolt from the heavens arcs down and kills the PC attempting to do this.
Next question...
PS. You realize that even if you had 8 arms, the reason why lances do more damage is because of the momentum of the charge right? If the momentum is lost from the impact of the 1st lance, only the first lance reaps the benefits and the second lance is treated as a 2H weapon. In other words, no damage multiplier.
That's what I do, if I couldn't kill the PC who was attempting it.
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Lance: A lance deals double damage when used from the back of a charging mount. While mounted, you can wield a lance with one hand.
When you attack a creature smaller than your mount that is on foot, you get the +1 bonus on melee attacks for being on higher ground. If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack. Essentially, you have to wait until the mount gets to your enemy before attacking, so you can't make a full attack. Even at your mount's full speed, you don't take any penalty on melee attacks while mounted.
There are numerous other discussions on this, and my search-fu can't find them all, but two-weapon fighting requires a full-attack action, and it requires 10 or more feet of movement for a charge.
I disagree with the momentum argument, because a mounted character with a shield and a lance gets 150% Power Attack damage on every strike of a full attack without even needing to charge.
Edit: For clarity, this character is not charging, and is not trying to get double damage due to charging.
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I disagree with the momentum argument, because a mounted character with a shield and a lance gets 150% Power Attack damage on every strike of a full attack without even needing to charge.
Edit: For clarity, this character is not charging, and is not trying to get double damage due to charging.
I think folks are confusing what your asking with the "charge thing".
Hers the FAQ you're referring to. Hope it helps:
Power Attack: If I am using a two-handed weapon with one hand (such as a lance while mounted), do still I get the +50% damage for using a two-handed weapon?
Yes. -Pathfinder Design Team
You could be sitting still on a stationary mount full-attacking with 2 lances (1 in each hand).