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I'm building a paladin for PFS, and have the opportunity to start him at level 3 due to GM credits.
I had read on the forums about the efficacy of dipping 1 level into either Lore or Nature oracle mysteries for 1st level revelations that allowed CHA to be applied to AC and either Reflex saves or CMD.
Are these bonuses enough, in your opinion, to make up for losing full BAB progression (including impact on power attack step ups, iterative attacks, etc.) especially given that PFS characters cap at level 12?
It feels like, when i look at a hypothetical character, that you'd have a much more SAD character, but one slightly less offensively capable than a single-class paladin, although at low levels use of divine favor or other 1st level spells would possibly compensate.
Just looking for people's opinions or experience with paladins who either did or did not take this option.
Normally, in my campaigns, considering how they always go to 20, I wouldn't do it, but since this is PFS... yeah, go for it. I'd say its worth it.
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The bottom line: think what you want for your character, and then see if there is a mechanical build that delivers it.
-James
From both a mechanical and backstory perspective, a 1 level dip in oracle intrigues me:
Story impact - Provides opportunity to role play facet of character where the ‘gifts’ given by the source of the Oracular power are divergent from the paladin’s deity (e.g. Nethys intervenes into a young paladin’s life to provide powers, knowing using such powers may tempt the paladin at a later stage to fall)
Character mechanics
- I still see this paladin trying to take advantage of both heavy armor and the AC from CHA, via mithril armor (at a later stage, once I can afford it). By the time I have the fame to purchase a CHA boosting item, I will likely have accrued the gold to purchase a Mithril Tatami-Do suit, allowing me to stack a +5 CHA bonus to AC with +7 heavy armor. I won’t ever be able to get to 30ft movement without magic items, which will be annoying, but I haven’t played a heavy armor class character, and I like the challenge of positioning with this limitation.
- At early stages, access to level 1 oracle spells allows me to bridge the non-full BAB via divine favor, and use ProtE to boost AC when fighting non-smited targets (since the bonuses to AC do not stack)
- I lose the ability to go down the combat reflexes route, so I will be limited to single target combat
- Additionally, backup ranged weapons will suffer from no dexterity; if I get into a bow fight where I cannot close to melee, I’ll probably lose.
- Outside of combat, the lore oracle provides interesting knowledge skills that will augment a diplomacy focused social preference.
Unknowns:
- Gaining iterative attacks and power attack increases one level later
- Delaying paladin powers by one level
So my concern is that, while I like the conceptual flavor and feel of this hybrid, I am likely missing out on something that someone playing a higher level paladin might be able to identify.
Really isn't worth it imo.
CHA to AC seems nice, but very soon into the game you will discover that you want more from the paladin class, your spellcasting and divine bond, even your auras and lay on hands will all be delayed and it will be annoying to you.
If you want to be all CHA dependent then you could even go one step further and take Noble Scion of War.
But, as the 2 handed paladin, having the best AC in the group should not be your priority. When you draw aggro you want the enemies to focus on you instead of your squishy friends. They won't focus on you if they can't hit you. You are the paladin which means everyone is squishy compared to you, and you should be getting all the attention, ideally.
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I had a Paladin with 1 level of Oracle design idea for PFS, but I haven't played it yet. On paper it does look intriguing.
I was planning on Lore Oracle, getting Sidestep Secret and Noble Scion (War) feats. CHA instead of DEX for AC, Reflex, and Initiative. You can wear light armour so you can move at full speed, and lower armour check penalty looks attractive. And if you're so inclined, Extra Revelation for CHA instead of INT for all knowledge skills is cool too.
And, if the damage you're doing isn't enough to draw aggro, Antagonize can help with that area. I also had plans for Power Attack and Cornugon Smash for a free demoralize.
Only thing to keep in mind with Sidestep Secret is it doesn't apply to CMD; thus that might make it a little low. Tradeoff will be going Nature Oracle for Nature's Whispers, and hoping that Divine Grace on all saving throws will make up for your low Reflex save instead.
As I said, in theory it looks cool. I don't know how it'll be in practice.
Do you get to count double for your char to reflex then? because that makes a Ring of Evasion the number one ring you should buy.
Not necessarily... as a paladin with swift action healing, you don't mind taking half damage after making a reflex save. A nice item, to be sure, but I'd rather have Bracers of the Merciful Knight for ~9k less gold.
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Honestly I am not sure it's worth it. I played a paladin through 12 in PFS and about mid way made him a tank (at that time I did not know how to optimally play a paladin). While many fights were made moot, and I never had the ignoring problem (hey PFS is max 5 fights, the GM may not get frustrated with your AC by then) the big thing I found was that some things you can't avoid being hit by, and boosting your AC costs a lot.
I made a new paladin and what I've learned is AC is the weak tank stat for the paladin. Don't bother with the oracle dip, LoH is much more valuable. Get the bracers, get fry foundling, look into tiefling for the FC bonus, and get greater mercy. Those are far better than any AC bonus.
Honestly I am not sure it's worth it. I played a paladin through 12 in PFS and about mid way made him a tank (at that time I did not know how to optimally play a paladin). While many fights were made moot, and I never had the ignoring problem (hey PFS is max 5 fights, the GM may not get frustrated with your AC by then) the big thing I found was that some things you can't avoid being hit by, and boosting your AC costs a lot.
I made a new paladin and what I've learned is AC is the weak tank stat for the paladin. Don't bother with the oracle dip, LoH is much more valuable. Get the bracers, get fry foundling, look into tiefling for the FC bonus, and get greater mercy. Those are far better than any AC bonus.
This, also what are those bracers actually called? I was trying to find them but I am failing at the internet.
I would say no.
What curse would you take?
Wolf scarred... Get a bite attack, and look and feel like a hound archon
I would say no.
What curse would you take?
Most likely Legalistic (I think that's what it's called). The one where you can't physically handle telling a lie, since he's a paladin he isn't going to lie anyway.
What curse would you take?Most likely Legalistic (I think that's what it's called). The one where you can't physically handle telling a lie, since he's a paladin he isn't going to lie anyway.
Well you can lie, but if your word is ever broken or a promise unfulfilled, your sickened for 24 hours. You get a +4 to one check once per day to fulfill a promise. I think its a pretty cool curse. I think legalistic fits a paladin the best, because it feels like your held to your word by divinity itself.