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I posted on this topic before, but now that I've played more I wanted to zero in on some specific items.
I tried building my first PFS character as a cleric, but I didn't like how that was going so I rebuilt him as a ranger. I still really want to play a cleric, so here's my issues:
My stats currently are 14 STR; 10 DEX; 13 CON; 12 INT; 16 WIS; 14 CHA.
I would play a human cleric of Iomedae, and probably select the Glory and Good domains.
I want to be able to contribute to melee combat and healing, but have the ability to be a very good caster at higher PFS levels (if playing a full campiagn to level 20, I'd be sure to bump my WIS to 18).
I have found with my ranger that a 14 STR is adequate for melee at lower levels - though he has a higher BAB than the cleric will.
I guess what I'm wondering about now is feat selection. At 1st level Weapon Focus is out because it requires a BAB +1 (irriatating, because it would be a great way to overcome the lack of a 1st level BAB).
I would like to spend one feat on selective channeling. I only have the Core Rulebook, but if there are any feats that I could take at 1st level to help out my ability to hit, I sure appreciate knowing about them.
Maybe I should consider Improved Initiative (at least at level 3, when I can do more than 1 or two buffs per day).
I'd appreciate any thoughts on these topics. Thanks!
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I want to be able to contribute to melee combat and healing, but have the ability to be a very good caster at higher PFS levels (if playing a full campaign to level 20, I'd be sure to bump my WIS to 18).
You will never be able to fill all of the roles listed with any character.
Your choices are.1:Combat focused cleric that can stay effective across all levels of play. That cast self buffing spells, and using there domain powers to make them better at melee combat.
Human Starting : Str 18 Dex 10 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 14 Cha 10
2:Casting focused cleric. They do not come in to there own until after level 5is. There is no way round how this works out due to spell list for clerics. They are very powerful in there own right. Up there close to wizards. Just remember let the party know your not a band aid, and your spell are for combat.
Human starting : Str 8 Dex 10 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 20 Cha 10
3:Channel focused cleric. I left this for last as it is the most suboptimal way to play a cleric. If this is what your looking for play a Aasimar life oracle you will be much happier.
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I want to be able to contribute to melee combat and healing, but have the ability to be a very good caster at higher PFS levels (if playing a full campaign to level 20, I'd be sure to bump my WIS to 18).You will never be able to fill all of the roles listed with any character.
Your choices are.
1:Combat focused cleric that can stay effective across all levels of play. That cast self buffing spells, and using there domain powers to make them better at melee combat.
Human Starting : Str 18 Dex 10 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 14 Cha 10
2:Casting focused cleric. They do not come in to there own until after level 5is. There is no way round how this works out due to spell list for clerics. They are very powerful in there own right. Up there close to wizards. Just remember let the party know your not a band aid, and your spell are for combat.
Human starting : Str 8 Dex 10 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 20 Cha 10
3:Channel focused cleric. I left this for last as it is the most suboptimal way to play a cleric. If this is what your looking for play a Aasimar life oracle you will be much happier.
I agree that you can't really do all 3 well, but you can go for two out of three. You won't be quite as good at either as someone who specialized completely in one of them, but you can do two of them fairly well.
I posted on this topic before, but now that I've played more I wanted to zero in on some specific items.
I tried building my first PFS character as a cleric, but I didn't like how that was going so I rebuilt him as a ranger. I still really want to play a cleric, so here's my issues:
My stats currently are 14 STR; 10 DEX; 13 CON; 12 INT; 16 WIS; 14 CHA.
I would play a human cleric of Iomedae, and probably select the Glory and Good domains.
I want to be able to contribute to melee combat and healing, but have the ability to be a very good caster at higher PFS levels (if playing a full campiagn to level 20, I'd be sure to bump my WIS to 18).
Like all the others have said being good at everything is going to be difficult. My suggestion would be focus on support with melee and healing being secondary. The reason I suggest focusing on support is because the spells are not affected by SR or Save DC.
Build idea:
A variation on the reach cleric idea. Take the evangelist archetype and the heroism sub-domain. wield a reach weapon. At low levels you use inspire courage as a standard action and then use your move action to get in place to either flank enemies for your tank or block an enemies path to your squishies. Second round standard action you buff spell and then reposition, later rounds- help mop up in melee. Once you hit mid levels you should be able to inspire as a move, buff as a standard and still get an AOO or 2 a round. That's solid action economy. Since evangelist gives up medium armor and spontaneous cures you wouldn't be poorly served by a 1 level dip in to fighter or paladin to pick up heavy armor and a feat or smite evil. You'll also get a better reach weapon than the longspear. as far as curing goes selective channel and channel energy in battle and leave slots open to prepare spells if needed out of battle. and of course the good ol' wand of cure light wounds.
I'd drop your int to 10 and bump your dex to 14 if you decide to take this route.
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Thanks! I guess my main problem is that I want to do too much with the cleric. But I've heard from others besides Fromper that you can generally do two things well with a cleric.
As far as the wisdom score goes, I see that at 20 WIS I get an extra bonus spell at 1st level, and some more at higher levels. But since PFS only goes through level 12 (caster level 6), 16 WIS lets me cast all the spells I'm going to in the game.
My revised idea look like this: Str 14 Dex 10 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 18 Cha 10. I am guessing that I'll appreciate the extra +1 to hit more than an extra skill point every level. My goal is to make melee realistic until about 4th level or so and then I can hopefully swithc more towards casting - which like you said, calagnar really doesn't shine until about level 5.
This is now my third PFS character, and I'm trying to balance each so they can be solid in two areas. My ranger is very good at range and decent at melee. My rogue (I hope) is built to be a two-weapon backstabber and skill monkey and party "face" (with 10 or 11 SP/level how could he not be?).
Thanks for the pointers!
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Bear in mind that the Good domain buff only affects your allies. You won't be able to use it on yourself, then attack in the same turn, and it wears off before your next turn. Unless, of course, you do the reach weapon build that's been tossed about on the forums a lot.
And although Glory domain is pretty good, that level 1 buff doesn't get much use at low levels.
But I definitely approve of a cleric of Iomedae. Most of the PCs you see who worship her are paladins, so it's always nice to see a different class following her. Certain deities are like that. ie Irori is all monks, with no other worshipers, Shelyn has mostly bards, etc.
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2:Casting focused cleric. They do not come in to there own until after level 5is. There is no way round how this works out due to spell list for clerics.
Unless, of course, you aren't using spells from the cleric spell list. My 2nd level Fire Domain Theologian is easily a match for any other 2nd level blaster getting multiple 4d4 Burning Hands. At 5th she gets all the cool cleric spells AND a 7d6 Fireball.
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Unless, of course, you aren't using spells from the cleric spell list. My 2nd level Fire Domain Theologian is easily a match for any other 2nd level blaster getting multiple 4d4 Burning Hands. At 5th she gets all the cool cleric spells AND a 7d6 Fireball.
2:Casting focused cleric. They do not come in to there own until after level 5is. There is no way round how this works out due to spell list for clerics.
Your not really even close to a wizard or sorcerer. Due to the fact you can only do this one time a day. I have a casting focused cleric that just hit level 5. I have done well with him. However compared to a arcane caster that comes in to there power at level two spells. Divine casters will allows behind them no mater what. It's just how there spell list works.
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Unless, of course, you aren't using spells from the cleric spell list. My 2nd level Fire Domain Theologian is easily a match for any other 2nd level blaster getting multiple 4d4 Burning Hands. At 5th she gets all the cool cleric spells AND a 7d6 Fireball.
2:Casting focused cleric. They do not come in to there own until after level 5is. There is no way round how this works out due to spell list for clerics.Your not really even close to a wizard or sorcerer. Due to the fact you can only do this one time a day. I have a casting focused cleric that just hit level 5. I have done well with him. However compared to a arcane caster that comes in to there power at level two spells. Divine casters will allows behind them no mater what. It's just how there spell list works.
Theologians can prepare domain spells in non-domain slots so it is more than once a day. Since they add +2 to the caster level of domain spells their damage will surpass most arcane blasters at low levels. While an arcanist will likely surpass this eventually that isn't really the point. You said there was no way around not being an effective blaster cleric until you hit 5th level. I am demonstrating there is at least one way around that and I am sure there are more that the many optimizers on this board could find.
I disagree with calagnar on a few points.
The casting clreic can be powerful at level 1.
Magical lineage Murderous command with the extend Metamagic. On a fialed save your enemy is out of the fight for 2 rounds, AND attacks his teammate or chases him down(if there is no one nearby he runs away after him provoking attacks).
Hold person is a solid level 2 spell. I am not a big fan since they save every turn, but easy sneak attack insta kills.
Channel focused clerics can dominate a fight.
negative alt channel envy. This does not do much damage but the enemy must spend thir next turn using the steal feature on you. 0.00000000001 will have improved steal and will provoke. So you not only take thier attack away you give a free one for your allies. Plus you can get traits and feats to raise the DC. At level 5 you can do it as a move action. The DCs will be a touch over what a caster cleric can do.
Troll bill that is definately compairable to an arcane caster for damage. You could not surpass without dipping.
level 1s
Theoligain, spell focus, spell specilization could do 5d4 at first level. Although the dual blooded sorcer spell focus,spell spec, giftadapt does 4d4+8
Magic knacked theoligian/sorcerer/wiz(for admixture)
By level 7 you would have 10d6+21 fireball. intenisifed 12d6+25. Or
Theoligian/sorcerer to get fireball at 6, but stuck doing fire.