Hi!
I need a some advice and opinions on a build that I will try in my upcoming campaign.
For quite some time I have wanted to try the shadowdancer presstige class. I know it is not the greates thing out there but it has a lot of flavor.
In the party there will be a rogue/wizard who will turn into an arcane trickster, a ninja who will turn into an assasin and a wizard/cleric.
The fighter will be a Cad from Ultimate Combat. I'll take the SD at 6th or 7th level. The concept is a spring attacker with reach weapons and a great sword when the former does not work. He'll be a fetchling.
My stats will be something like this.
STR: 14
DEX: 16 (14+2)
CON: 10 or 12
INT: 10 or 12 ( Combat expertise might be good but the HP suffers)
WIS: 8 (10-2)
CHA: 14 (12+2)
I plan on reaching 10th level with the Shadowdancer.
The reason I am asking for your advice is because I am not sure this will work out the way I hope. The build does not have the brightest stats, itt will not have the highest attack bonus either but I am hoping that with the shadowcompanion, HIPS and the other tricks that the SD has it will be a viable and useful character.
So what do you think? Will it be capable at higher levels? Can the shadow evocation and conjuration be usefully used with a 14 CHA? Should I get combat expertise or should I go for the CON boost?
Greetings, fellow traveller.
My thoughts/questions:
Why do you favor Dex over Str - especially when going reach weapon/2hand? The benefits for AC, ini, saves is there, but it does not improve attack and damage and DEX 13 is enough for CM and dodge/Spring Attack. I'd switch stats.
Your "casting" should be restricted to spells with no save or affecting you/your party - nothing offensive. At the levels you get that, opponents will laugh at your DCs anyways.
Why fetchling? Human would get another feat, another skill point, etc. or you could even try to get Eye for Talent (APG) to increase a stat of your shadow companion (say CHA for more hp) - you'd lose the feat though.
Put your +2 into STR - the rest does not really matter (see CHA above and I'd personally hate to see my WILL save diminish even further).
For Combat Expertise, you'd need to increase INT to 13 - imo not worth it, since your AC will never be that great anyways.
The shadow companion will be your Achilles heal - at the level you'll get it magic (weapons) will be quite common and using it as a flanking buddy and STR drainer might be difficult - oh and make sure to run your usual handling/co-operation by your GM so you suffer no bad surprises what might be involved in getting the shadow to do what your PCs wants it to do.
Ruyan.
RuyanVe wrote: Greetings, fellow traveller.
My thoughts/questions:
Why do you favor Dex over Str - especially when going reach weapon/2hand? The benefits for AC, ini, saves is there, but it does not improve attack and damage and DEX 13 is enough for CM and dodge/Spring Attack. I'd switch stats.
Your "casting" should be restricted to spells with no save or affecting you/your party - nothing offensive. At the levels you get that, opponents will laugh at your DCs anyways.
Why fetchling? Human would get another feat, another skill point, etc. or you could even try to get Eye for Talent (APG) to increase a stat of your shadow companion (say CHA for more hp) - you'd lose the feat though.
Put your +2 into STR - the rest does not really matter (see CHA above and I'd personally hate to see my WILL save diminish even further).
For Combat Expertise, you'd need to increase INT to 13 - imo not worth it, since your AC will never be that great anyways.
The shadow companion will be your Achilles heal - at the level you'll get it magic (weapons) will be quite common and using it as a flanking buddy and STR drainer might be difficult - oh and make sure to run your usual handling/co-operation by your GM so you suffer no bad surprises what might be involved in getting the shadow to do what your PCs wants it to do.
Ruyan.
1. SD is not taken fro optimaze reasons, but for role play .
2. STR >>>> dex for sure
3. int 13-14 since if you take dodge and sprng you might as well go all the way fro whirlwind attack... especially since your BAB wont be hig
4. your shadow is an ace, not to be used all the time or the GM will kill it.
I just made it to Shadowdancer with a fighter build (and a dip into rogue). It absolutely works. Its true that you don't have the brightest stats etc. but as you alluded to - the flavour is great - and that is really what it is all about. Enjoying the character and roll-playing it rather than having the optimal build for fighting.
One thing that stands out to me - you have a very stealth heavy group.
Stop me if you've heard this one before: a rogue/wizard, a ninja and a shadowdancer walk into a bar... nobody noticed until the wizard/cleric stumbled in.
I balanced Strength and Dex very much as you have. Armour restrictions will mean that you have to rely on dodge for a decent AC - that has worked out fine for me.
I think your CHA is maybe a little high - at least higher than my approach. It can feel like a long time until you get your summoning. I do admit there have been a few occasions where I could very much have benefited from a higher CHA.
I haven't hit the level with Shadow Companion yet. I agree with Ruyan about your companion. My intent is not to use it in combat so much. It hurts so much if you lose it and that will be a very real possibility with the baddies you'll be fighting by the time you can summon it.
I went with a tiefling rather than a fetchling. I was looking at fetchlings last week... had I looked at them sooner I might have been a fetchling instead. Again, I think the overall character concept it great fun.
In short great concept. Build the character that is the most fun to play - I think you are well on your way with what you have.
Cheers - Quil.
Don't get me wrong here. I totally dig the flavor of the class and have more than once strongly considered building one as next char but group composition (and a GM who doesn't care about lighting conditions and errata to Stealth etc) have kept me from it; and still, I aim for some level of efficiency/optimization/munchkinism where my group benefits from my being there and taking part in the group's dealings--thus my slight rearrangement of stats/questions concerning your stat distribution.
Oh, and I just remembered that there exists a list of all the spells falling under shadow conjuration/evoction somewhere on these forums - might be worth to have a look at it (and sorry, I'm too lazy to search for it).
Ruyan.
Thank you guys for the advice I will probably go for the higher STR.
RuyanVe yes I gave found the list, really useful!
I had a similar concept as well, except I went with Halfling. Per level it looks something like this:
Str: 10 +0 (12 base, -2 racial)
Dex: 20 +5 (16 base, +2 racial, +2 level)
Con: 14 +2 (14 base)
Int: 10 +0 (10 base)
Wis: 10 +0 (10 base)
Cha: 15 +2 (13 base, +2 racial)
1:Fighter 1:Dodge, Weapon Finesse: BAB +1
2:Rogue 1:+1d6 Sneak Attack, Trapfinding +1:BAB +1
3:Fighter 2:Bravery +1, Combat Reflexes, Mobility:BAB +2
4:Fighter 3:Armor Training +1 (+1 Dex):BAB +3
5:Fighter 4:Spring Attack, Weapon Focus: Rapier:BAB +4
6:Shadowdancer 1:Hide in Plain Sight:BAB +4
7:Shadowdancer 2:Darkvision, Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, Weapon Specialization: Rapier:BAB +5 (<- this is a great level)
8:Shadowdancer 3:Fast Stealth, Shadow Illusion, Summon Shadow (+1 Dex):BAB +6/+1
9:Shadowdancer 4:Blind Fight, Shadow Call, Shadow Jump 40’:BAB +7/+2
10:Shadowdancer 5:Defensive Roll, Improved Uncanny Dodge:BAB +7/+2
Note that this character is a stealthy trapfinder. So kind of a rogue replacement. It is not really a front line fighter.
At 9th and 10th level magic weapons are common, but only for humanoid opponents, and even then they have a 50% miss chance. Against a lot of monsters or animals it's not a problem at all. Just take some reasonable precautions and don't throw your shadow into the middle of a bunch of magic sword wielding drow (or whatever) and it should be fine.
I have made up my mind and thought up the final verson of the character.
He'll be a human fighter with the Cad archtype. He'll start at level 4.
For the stats we can distribute 72 points. I'll take the dual talented trait which gives +2 to another attribute thats 76 + the level 4 boost so 77 total.
STR: 16
DEX: 16
CON: 14
INT: 13
WIS: 10
CHA: 8
I reconsidered going all the way with the Shadowdancer I'll rather take just 4 levels. This way I get the HIPS, evasion, uncanny dodge, a rogue talent, the silent image, the shadow, the teleport and the conjuration and only loose one BAB and one feat.
I will focus on surprise attacks from the shadows with disarm and dirty trick in which the Cad excelles.
I think it will bring something new to the tank fighter role and will be a lot of fun.
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