at some point I intend to select the additional traits feat and get wayfang spellhunter + magical lineage
I'm considering glitterdust for one of these spells. i'm not sure how overall useful blind is on later levels, and i'm not sure how fast creature will saves will scale.
the save every round is kind of annoying... but it seems like it could be pretty good with persistent... but I just don't know.
thoughts?
Blind is a strong effect but pretty much the only Metamagic you will put on Glitterdust is Persistent so the effect gets less and less relevant as you have more spell slots to use it on. Personally I would look to pick something you want to put Dazing on or a powerful removal spell, something like Flesh to Stone so you can lster on use Quicken on it for free with Spell Perfection together with a regular Persistent one.
If your game wont go that far then obviously look at something lower level. Depending on your class Heavens Oracles can keep Colour Spray relevant for most of their career.
Glitterdust is great at making invisible enemies appear, and for that use is good through many levels. It's OK at making enemies blind, which is a great tool in your arsenal if you have a party member who uses sneak attacks. Since it's only level 2 and doesn't have damage dice, there's not much reason to apply Magical Lineage to it.
I suggest choosing a spell that targets fortitude, and another that targets reflex, both capable of hitting multiple enemies. That should give you maximum flexibility in the long run.
It's just one of many uses for Spell Focus (illusion), but probably not worth devoting entire feats to.
It's a good spell and should last you some time, and might be a good candidate to quicken at later levels, but I'd probably not get the traits for it.
The fact that it's a good school that you can have great usage of spell focus/GSF for is to it's benefit, though. It also ignores spell resistance, which is fantastic.
It's an valid choice, and I don't think you'll feel that it was _wasted_, but it might not be most optimal choice.
It also depends on what level you'll mostly play. I think it'll be really powerful up to level 9-10 or so, if you get the other feats for it, and can still be useful up to level 15 or so. After that you'll probably want to quicken other things instead, but if most of the campaign is at levels 1-15 then it's still a good choice.
I mean, it's just a single feat. Worst case scenario it's mediocre, but it's probably quite good.
EDIT:
Lincoln Hills wrote: It's just one of many uses for Spell Focus (illusion), but probably not worth devoting entire feats to. Glitterdust is Conjuration though.
Dang! Edition changes caught me napping again. Sorry - Spell Focus (conjuration) it is. (And a nice perk on the way to Augment Summoning, by the way.)
I think it also depends on what class and build you have in general. What class and other choices, like bloodline or school?
I wouldn't worry so much on build but what kind situations is this character going to be running into?
Are you in situations where you will need an edge or is the oh crap button?
Heighten Spell can be used to keep the save up.
Extend Spell will increase the duration, but most fights will be over long before the 1 round/level duration expires, so I wouldn't reccomend it.
Widen spell will increase the area of effect to a 20 foot spread for +3 to the spell level. This would be good against mooks, but that is effectively a -3 to your DC.
Persistent Spell forces 2 saves for a +2 spell level increase.
At level 10 with Magical Lineage, you could memorize Heigtened Persistant Glitterdust with a level 5 spell slot, it would count as a level 4 spell, have a DC of 14 + wisdom + spell focus + greater spell focus.
A normal caster cleric would have at least a 22 wisdom at that level, so a DC of 22 is not that hard to get. +8 or +9 is a pretty normal weak save for a martial character, so a DC of 22 roll twice gives them around a 16% chance to avoid the blinding.
Another nice thing about Glitterdust, Spell Resistance: no.
Another thing to note, not only does it negate invisibility, it negates psuedo invisibility abilities via stealth skill like hide in plain sight via the -40 to stealth checks.
Also, spell focus(conjuration) opens up the road to Augment Summoning, so this is a good path to take for a summoner type cleric.
I'd go for it, at least if I can put Heighten Spell on it, because it's really that good.
You can blind multiple people for a fairly long duration within combat, ignoring spell resistance, and as a bonus might reveal someone who is invisible. What's not to love?
Given the disparity between save DC and saving throws, I don't think the save-per-round thing will hurt you much. Even blinding an NPC barbarian for a round or two is already worth it. Blinding said barbarian and his buddy who was right beside him already pays off, even if they both make their saves the next round. (And they probably won't, if you're targeting the right guys.)
- Focused Spell (+1 spell level, adds +2 save DC for one foe in the area of effect)
- Persistent Spell (+2 spell levels, roll the save twice)
- Selective Spell (+1 spell level, exclude your friends)
- Heighten Spell (boost the save DC)
- Quicken Spell (+4 spell levels, cast as a swift action)
- Disruptive Spell (+1 spell level, mess with spellcasters)
The part where they get to save every round can actually make the game more fun than if they don't get to save every round. Sure, it isn't as solid of an I-WIN spell, but those get a trifle boring after a while.
Ilja wrote: I think it also depends on what class and build you have in general. What class and other choices, like bloodline or school? *bonks self* ... yeah, that might help :)
i'm divination (forsight) school
opposition: necro, ench
spellbinder archetype
and I have spell focus (evo)
honestly I wasn't even sure if i'd get focus in conjuration... my main thing was that I wanted to be able to apply persistent when prepping it without boosting the level too high, and then tack on something else with a minor meta rod... maybe focused spell rod? maybe down the road quicken rod? too bad you can't selective duration spells :/
not sure. it seemed like persistent might be enough to make the save every round still be kind of ok...
but maybe it's better focusing on other things.
thanks for the help guys, i'll think on it some more :)
Blueluck wrote: Glitterdust is great at making invisible enemies appear, and for that use is good through many levels. It's OK at making enemies blind, which is a great tool in your arsenal if you have a party member who uses sneak attacks. Since it's only level 2 and doesn't have damage dice, there's not much reason to apply Magical Lineage to it.
I suggest choosing a spell that targets fortitude, and another that targets reflex, both capable of hitting multiple enemies. That should give you maximum flexibility in the long run.
yeah maybe i'll pick up a minor persistent rod and call it good. I do really think the extra save from persistent would be the goods on a spell like this.
the big reason for trying to sort what i'm going to be focusing my traits on later is so I can decide what meta and focus to pick up as well. I need a couple staples that cover a lot of territory I think. flaming sphere + persistent? aqueous orb + persistent? glitterdust + persistent?
seems i'm just in love with persistent, but don't feel like I can prep it on much of anything without one of those traits to drop it 1 level.
maybe damn near everything meta is best left as a rod :(
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