Walking and Crafting?

[matafuego]

Hello everybody:

I need to make a ruling on what happens with a party that is walking 8 hours a day and then intends to craft (weapons/armors/leather) for another 8 hours (and sleep the remaining 8 hours)

Is it possible?

The rules I could find only mention forced march. But I guess something similar could apply here.

What do you think?
Or it can't be done at all?

Thanks a lot!

Lucas

[blackbloodtroll]

Well, I could see knitting.

[Sean K Reynolds]

Core Rulebook page 549, last paragraph of column 1 talks about crafting while adventuring (and yes, walking for 8 hours per day counts as "adventuring").

[blackbloodtroll]

Ah, but what about knitting in combat?

[Cerberus Seven]

matafuego wrote:

Hello everybody:

I need to make a ruling on what happens with a party that is walking 8 hours a day and then intends to craft (weapons/armors/leather) for another 8 hours (and sleep the remaining 8 hours)

Is it possible?

The rules I could find only mention forced march. But I guess something similar could apply here.

What do you think?
Or it can't be done at all?

Thanks a lot!

Lucas

During those 8 hours they're not walking or sleeping, they're presumed to be doing other things like clearing a camp site, starting up a fire, cooking and eating meals, doing repairs / maintenance on their gear, tending to mounts, and other essential activities. Thus, they only get the benefit of 4 hours of crafting. They're also presumed to be at half normal efficiency when crafting since they're out in the wilderness with no appropriate forge / lab / desk / workshop / whatever nearby with which to gain optimal crafting conditions. So overall crafting speed is 25% of what it would be if they took 8 hours out of the day at home base or whatever.

[Weirdo]

This is covered by the crafting during an adventuring day rules (a few paragraphs in). For the reasons Cerberus Seven described, crafting while adventuring is possible but at 1/4 daily rate. While this only explicitly applies to magic items I expect the same principles would apply for mundane crafting.

To get a full day's crafting while adventuring it's typical to use a ring of sustenance and a Rope Trick (or similar spell) to get a secure area for 8 hours while the rest of the party sleeps.

[Xaratherus]

I've a Rogue that's specialized in combat knitting. He has a sneak purl of 5d6.

[Reecy]

You could do several different crafts...

You would need a wagon so you could sit though.

Knitting
Writing
Alchemy (on Road)
Whittling

etc

[Vincent Takeda]

SKR approved fast crafting rate:

After 8 hours of walking, the consensus is that you'd be too tired to craft for the full 8 hours afterwards. We've gotten an SKR approved ruling that fast crafting (adding a +5dc to the craft check) doubles your daily limit, so a crafter using fast crafting tops out at 2000 progress per day.

Wiggle room: odd nuances of adventuring/travelling rules:

Now the description of the reduction from 8 to 4 isn't written specifically enough to force one interpretation or another, but its insinuated that this would be due to the fact that adventuring would leave a character too tired to get in another 8 hours of crafting, and the 'at half efficiency' is characterised as being due to the fact that crafting is broken up into a little bit here, a little bit there, during breaks and lunch and stuff, which may not necessarily be the case, so this is a place where a crafter may have wiggle room to try and get more progress while on the road.

4 straight uninterrupted hours of crafting on the road?:

If your crafter has read any of the threads i've posted in he will try to take advantage of that wiggle room above and make it so his 4 hours of crafting are not broken up throughout the day but instead are all done in 4 solid uninterrupted hours, so as not to have his crafting cut to 25% of his daily limit by being interrupted. Its up to you as a gm or your table as a whole to decide if that's a fair interpretation of the text. Every table handles that nuance their own way. Even if you rule that its fair to do it all in one shot and thus allowing for a '4 uninterrupted hours while travelling rate', it's also still fair for you to lynch the party with a random encounter during those 4 hours, which breaks up the crafting and brings him back down to the 25% of daily max of progress bit as often as you feel like. Crafters dont like it, but there's nothing unfair about doing so.

Arcane builder???:

Those 2000/1000/500 numbers could be puffed up to 2666/1333/666 if the crafter is a wizard with an arcane builder feat and is fast crafting as well, but If you're making a ruling then the feat the character is using to craft is probably already been decided. Unless he's got arcane builder, the fast crafting 2000/1000/500 is where he's at. If he's not fast crafting its 1000/500/250 per day. Arcane builder is funky because once again its specifically worded to say 'you craft 25% faster' not 'you craft 25% more in the time allotted'... So its not saying that a 1000 in 8 hours changes to 1250 in 8 hours. Its saying that you make the 1000 in 75% of the time (6 hours). That means that if there's a hard limit of 8 hours no matter what, at a rate of 1000/6hours is actually 1333/8 hours, 2666 if fast crafting, 666 if 4 hours uninterrupted and 333 if 4 hours interrupted...

Safe crafing environments on the road?:

It's up to you and your table whether rope trick is a decent enough environment for crafting (which depending on what the character is crafting may require a heat source) but the wording of rope trick is vague enough that even I have a hard time justifying it as a safe enough crafting environment most of the time. In the other crafting threads I strongly suggest 'Secure Shelter' instead because it has stonestrong walls, alarm spells on the door, a workdesk and a firesource. A nightime attack will raise the alarm spell and interrupt your crafting still, but at least you're not getting an arrow to the knee while you're too busy looking at the quality of your stitching to notice the archer in the shadows...

The bottom line:

So at the end of the day there are 4 'rates' to think about and 3 'timeframes' to think about.

Rates of progress in Gold per day for each
---1000 in 8 hours if Not an arcane builder/Not fast crafting
---1333 in 8 hours if Arcane builder/Not fast crafting:
---2000 in 8 hours if Not an arcane builder/Fast crafting
---2666 in 8 hours if Arcane Builder/Fast crafting

Once we take those rates 'on the road', you have to find out if he's trying to get it all done in 4 straight hours or if he's breaking it up into little bits througout the day. If he's trying to do it all at once you/your table may allow him to get the 4 hours uninterrupted rates of
---500 in 4 hours if Not an arcane builder/Not fast crafting
---666 in 4 hours if Arcane builder/Not fast crafting:
---1000 in 4 hours if Not an arcane builder/Fast crafting
---1333 in 4 hours if Arcane Builder/Fast crafting

Or you/your table can decide that doing it all at once in 4 hours uninterrupted doesnt make a difference. in which case we go with the interrupted travelling rate which is still 4 hours of work, but progress is only
---250 in 4 interrupted hours if Not an arcane builder/Not fast crafting
---333 in 4 interrupted hours if Arcane builder/Not fast crafting:
---500 in 4 interrupted hours if Not an arcane builder/Fast crafting
---666 in 4 interrupted hours if Arcane Builder/Fast crafting

The wizards 'day planner':

It is very common for a crafting wizard to use a ring of sustenance and take 'fast learner' which allows them to memorize all of their daily spells in 15 minutes instead of an hour, so instead of
---8 hours adventuring
---8 hours of sleep,
---4 hours of crafting,
---1 hour of study,
---3 hours of 'doing whatever else...'
we get
---8 hours adventuring,
---2 hours of sleep,
---4 hours of crafting,
---15 minutes of study and
---9 hours and 45 mintutes of 'doing whatever else' per day.

And our table's odder but cleaner version of it:

My gm and I hate the idea of 8 hour arcane builder rates of 2666/1333/666/333 so what we've done at our table is waived the written rule that crafting must be done in 8 or 4 hour blocks... The fact that I can craft 25% faster in fact just means exactly that. I can fast craft 2000 in 6 hours, 1000 in 3 hours, or 500 in 3 interrupted/travelling hours, so my day more often reads as
---8 hours adventuring,
---2 hours of sleep,
---3 hours of crafting (1000gp or 500gp depending on interruptions)
---15 minutes of study and
---10 hours and 45 mintutes of 'doing whatever else' per day.

[Vincent Takeda]

Theres nothing unfair about not allowing the 'straight uninterrupted hours of crafting on the road' thing. Most gm's don't. My gm is cool. I got lucky. Your player might ask for it though, so until paizo/SKR lowers the 'official ruling hammer' on it, be ready to make a decision either way on it in case it comes up. At this time the wiggle room is there, and the decision is up to you and your table.

Travel and adventure for 8 hours followed by 8 hours of crafting just flat out isnt possible by RAW, so the best your crafter can hope for is to make up for it with 4 hours of travelling 'fast crafting' instead. Whether he gets full crafting rate for doing it uninterrupted or not is, at this time, something you and your table have to decide.

If your crafter takes arcane builder discovery it's up to you to decide if that means keeping the 8 hour/4hour mechanic with the weird daily gp limits, or keeping the nice clean gp limits and changing to a 6 hour/3 hour mechanic like we do at my table.

[matafuego]

Thanks a lot everybody!

I never thought of applying the magic crafting rules to mundane crafting.
I'll make a summary of all of this to show to my players :)

Thanks again!

[Xaratherus]

Vincent Takeda wrote:

Your player might ask for it though, so until paizo/SKR lowers the 'official ruling hammer' on it, be ready to make a decision either way on it in case it comes up. At this time the wiggle room is there, and the decision is up to you and your table.

And even then, if it's not a moderated game (like PFS), then the GM might look at the dent left by the official rule hammer and say, "No, I don't like that. Go ahead and do it how you wanted."