RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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This is sort of a "just checking" post. I think I know the (unfortunate) answer, but I'm checking to make sure. Maybe I'm misunderstanding a PFS rule, or maybe I'm figuring out how to follow a rule that nobody else follows anyway.
Situation: I have GMed "Portal of the Sacred Rune" a few times. When I've run it, I've never had a character whom I wanted to receive the credit, so I've run it without assigning the GM credit to any character.
Now, I'm in a crunch. I have (a) an 11th-level character, due to the generosity of GMs at Kubla Con and the local game day in Omaha yesterday, and (b) an invitation to play "Eyes of the Ten" this coming weekend. I can get in one game before then, due to the generosity of a GM in Minnesota, but it's hit-or-miss as to whether I'll get a second game in.
Can I assign "Portal of the Sacred Rune" to the PC now, or do I need to run it again, and assign it at that time?
Or is this a rule that nobody cares about?
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You're meant to assign it straight away because if that character was 4th level when you GM'd that game, and you apply it when that character gets to 11th level, the character was always safe from the risk of losing that credit between levels 7 and 11. Worse if it was more than one chronicle.
As long as you haven't used the character since you GM'd that game, you should be fine.
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If you played or applied other chronicles since the last play date of Portal of the Sacred Rune, you would have to run the scenario again in order to gain GM credit.
If the credit is on a different character, and has not been applied. I see no reason why you couldn't shift if from one character to another as long as both are still alive.
You just have to make sure that credit is applied in sequential order of the date you earned the credit. Making sure that the dates were in order except for the chronicle sheets that needed to be held because of the character being out of tier. But those held chronicles would be applied by date once the character reaches the appropriate level.
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It has to be assigned at the time you filled out the tracking sheet.
When you choose to take a Chronicle sheet for GM credit, you must decide which of your characters receives the Chronicle sheet when you fill out the tracking sheet for that table. You must apply Chronicle sheets in the order they are received. The only exception is when you hold a higher-tier Chronicle for a lower-tier character. In either case, you do not need to build the character until you actually play it.
I believe this was a deliberate change form the past rules that were more open to applying GM credit when you wanted to.
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I agree with the rule, and agree with the potential for abuse, but I don't think anyone is going to begrudge a 5-star GM a rule-bending for the opportunity to play in Eyes of the Ten.
It's not okay to break the rule that everyone else has to abide by just because you've GM'd a lot. If you want to go down that path, better to change the rule.
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It has to be assigned at the time you filled out the tracking sheet.
When you choose to take a Chronicle sheet for GM credit, you must decide which of your characters receives the Chronicle sheet when you fill out the tracking sheet for that table. You must apply Chronicle sheets in the order they are received. The only exception is when you hold a higher-tier Chronicle for a lower-tier character. In either case, you do not need to build the character until you actually play it.I believe this was a deliberate change form the past rules that were more open to applying GM credit when you wanted to.
This text was not a change to how GM credit worked in the past. It merely clarified how the process is supposed to work. Check older versions of the Guide and see. Older versions simply made assumptions that the current text spells out.
The main issues are that GM Credit must be applied when the adventure is run (or once the PC reaches the lowest level of the adventure). There is a rule that a GM whose character is between the sub-tiers of the adventure can not wait and apply the Chronicle to the character when it reaches the higher sub-tier. Credit has to be applied at the lower sub-tier in those cases.
Also, adding a Chronicle after the fact (even to a character that does not have any Chronicles with a date after the Chronicle in question) means the online record will not be correct.
Technically, RAW you must choose the character for credit and report it on the tracking sheet if you take credit for that game.
The spirit of the rules would allow a GM to add the Chronicle if the character does not have any Chronicles dated after the date of the Chronicle they want to apply AND they are able to update the online record for that game and do so.
The phrase "when you fill out the tracking sheet" is there to keep event organizers from being pestered about updating online records ad nauseum. If you were the event organizer and the Chronicle won't be out of place date-wise, ...
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Don, we've already gone back and forth on that. Some places, GMs were keeping Chronicle sheet till we needed them. Some other places, GMs understood the rules to require them to report immediately. The current rules either changed the way it worked (if you were in one of the former areas) or simply codified what "everybody knew" (if you were in one of the latter).
Almost half the on-line records for my GM credit is wrong. Some of that is my fault (I want to give this credit to my archer ... is she -07 or -08?) and some of that is the con reporters.
It would take somebody at Paizo a while to correct all of those; I don't think anybody has that much spare time.
In the mean time, it looks like I'll be one XP shy of 12th level this weekend. Well, there'll be other opportunities.
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Don, we've already gone back and forth on that. Some places, GMs were keeping Chronicle sheet till we needed them. Some other places, GMs understood the rules to require them to report immediately. The current rules either changed the way it worked (if you were in one of the former areas) or simply codified what "everybody knew" (if you were in one of the latter). ...
Chris, to be pedantic, the current rules did not change the way it worked. They just made the rules clearer.
Some GMs did not understand how it worked and held credit until they chose to apply it. When the rules were clarified, previous mistakes were grandfathered in, to avoid honest mistakes from removing characters from play.
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Technically you get it as soon as the game starts, since players that leave early are supposed to get a chronicle detailing how much they actually got from the scenario and cannot replay it later for credit. A GM would be no different, but there are no guidelines about what constitutes running the scenario. TPKing the party on the first encounter still counts as far as I know.
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Since you shouldn't be playing (or GMing) another game while you are GMing the game for which you are taking GM credit, whether you get the GM Chronicle during or after the session is irrelevant. You wouldn't be able to do anything with it until after the session. It is best to assume that the GM gets the Chronicle at the end of the game along with everyone else.
Players that leave early, are a special case and get the Chronicle when they leave the session. The GM does not have that option.
I suppose if, the GM had to bail and the game could not be completed, then the GM would not get a Chronicle for the session - they would not deserve one.
Taking GM credit for an adventure is a choice, unlike players, who must take a Chronicle the first time they play the adventure. GMs should have to earn the Chronicle by running the adventure, not just starting it. An unrecoverable TPK would end the session early and allow the GM to take credit then.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Since you shouldn't be playing (or GMing) another game while you are GMing the game for which you are taking GM credit, whether you get the GM Chronicle during or after the session is irrelevant.
The exception being play-by-posts, of course.
If I start GMing a PbP scenario (5-17 "Ruse of the Rugose Yak") in February, and I play another scenario (5-14 "Night Pants of the Undertaker") shortly thereafter, do I add the Chronicle sheet for 5-17 to the character before or after I play 5-14?
Would you mind trying again for me?
I think his point is that once the GM starts running a scenario, there's no way to prevent him from earning the chronicle for GMing that scenario, no matter how the game ends. So he "gets" the chronicle (in the sense of earning it) immediately, whether or not he's entitled to apply it to a PC immediately (which is not particularly clear).
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Would you mind trying again for me?I think his point is that once the GM starts running a scenario, there's no way to prevent him from earning the chronicle for GMing that scenario, no matter how the game ends. So he "gets" the chronicle (in the sense of earning it) immediately, whether or not he's entitled to apply it to a PC immediately (which is not particularly clear).
If the GM does not finish running the adventure and skips out early, they should not be entitled to a Chronicle sheet.
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I suddenly don't care about the GM credit nearly as much as I do about making sure I get to play 5-14 "Night Pants of the Undertaker" as soon as it comes out, if not sooner.
I know, right? :D
I think that the Ruse of the Rugose Yak will be taking place in the Chabooboo mountains. It's the next logical place to take PFS play. Excited!
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Basically, there is no guideline for when you get credit for running the scenario.
Since you get GM credit at the same time a player gets theirs, i would argue it would be the same policy - 3 encounters completed and 1PP earned (if i am not mixing up my seasons). Obviously if they TPKd and you were filling out 'failed' chrons for them, that would bea good time to choose not to GM apply it to a character =D
Regarding the Original Poster, the rule seem fairly clear to me. In order for the GM who ran this adventure to decide now to apply it, two things must be true:
- He must mot have applied any other chronicles to that character yet
- (the biggie) He must not have turned in any chronicle sheets for the *players* in that game yet either. A GM must choose to accept or decline the chronicle when the players receive theirs.
"When you choose to take a Chronicle sheet for GM
credit, you must decide which of your characters receives
the Chronicle sheet **when you fill out the tracking sheet
for that table**." p40
If you turned in chrons for the players, and did not apply one to a currently existing character at that time, I believe you are sadly hosed.
As a side note, I am a new GM who has run 0 scenarios so far. While I greatly respect and appreciate the vast amounts of work you all have put in, it rubs me a bit of the wrong way that a guy who has run 100+ scenarios would get a pass on messing up a GM rule that I would not get a pass on as a new guy making new guy mistakes. But that is a political cranky sidenote and not germane to the original poster's question so I apologize.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Hi, Strangepork. Super cool to meet you.
I didn't make a mistake, per se. When you GM an adventure for the first time, you'll be able to assign the GM credit to one of your characters. It can go towards a character that already exists and is in tier for the adventure , or for a character that is too low-level for the credit or even to a character that doesn't exist yet.
If you want to, you can decline to take credit at all. That's what I did, because I wanted the credit to go somewhere useful, but I didn't know where, in January, or March, or April, when I'd run the adventure. I figured that eventually, I'd run it when I did kno who to assign it to.
And right now, I find myself needing some XP and not having a handy convention around.
(To people who've suggested on-line gaming: I've never done that, and I have no idea how to get started.)
At the edge of the grounds of the Lodge in Almas, old man Correy tends the burial plots of Pathfinders killed in action. Last night, while he was preparing graves for a band of agents recently slain, he was suddenly overcome with terror. When he came to his senses, the agents' corpses were gone, and so were his pants!
Catch me sometime and we'll "playtest" it.
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Chris, the Pathfinder Society Online Collective is the most prolific online site I know of. They have a Warhorn site for some of their games, and it looks like they are going to run Echoes of the Everwar- Part 1 on Thurs. night.
Maybe that helps?
It looks like it's full, but there is always a chance someone drops.
If the GM does not finish running the adventure and skips out early, they should not be entitled to a Chronicle sheet.
I suppose it depends on your definition of "early". For instance, I can remember an occasion where a GM was running over an hour late and he had to cut the session short after ~3 hours of play because the venue was closing (we didn't get to the last couple of encounters, for instance). I think in that case it makes sense for the players and the GM to get a chronicle.
But yes, I agree that common sense dictates that there's a certain point at which the GM and players have "earned" a chronicle.
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I know PbP's tend to be different, but what if I start GMing a PbP and a quarter of the way through the players bail. Do I report it for full credit?
Edit: Credit for myself that is.
It should be reported in any case. The players started playing the adventure so they get a Chronicle sheet. It may have 0 XP, 0 PP, and 0 gold, but they started the adventure so they get a Chronicle sheet. Since it wasn't your fault that the adventure could not be finished, you should have the option of taking a GM Chronicle sheet.
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Strangepork, nobody I know is quite that strict about these sorts of things. I've never heard of anyone (not even Paizo staff) caring if you wait until the next day after running a scenario to decide which character to apply a chronicle to. It doesn't have to be the exact same time the players get their chronicles.
The only time it matters, so you have to decide at the time you run the scenario, is if you're in a convention setting. In that case, you turn in a sheet to the organizer letting them know your character number that's getting the credit along with the player #s.
But for local game days where I do my own reporting on the Paizo web site, I've frequently GMed, handed out chronicles to the players, written "GM" in big letters on one copy of the chronicle, and let it sit in my PFS bag for a week or two before deciding what PC to assign it to. Even if I report the event online, I sometimes go back and change the GM credit assignment. As long as I haven't played either PC (the one losing the GM credit or the one gaining it) since then, it doesn't matter.
And that's really the issue with the Chris's problem that he started this thread for. He has played the character since the last time he GMed the adventure, so his chronicles would be out of order if he did this, which isn't allowed. There have been debates in these forums about changing/ignoring that rule in the past, so it's not an unreasonable question to ask if PFS management has made any statements that he didn't know about, which would let him get away with it. There are plenty of people who would have just done it anyway, and not worried about it, figuring nobody will ever know or care.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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For Chris.
There is a 7-11 slated for Thursday at 2 or 3 PM PDT start. google groups You'll need to register on the google group, sign up, and get on roll 20. It is looking like the 7-8 subtier is going to be played of 2-08, based on current signups.
David, you're super cool. I've already played 2-08 (just two weeks ago, as it turns out!) but that's good to know, going forward.
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Chris,
I know that the group is going to have 22 run on the 15th, although that is probably too far out for your issue.
However, with cooperation frmo one of the PFSOC's regular GMs, it might be possible for you to get setup to run something 7-11 within the next few days, so you can get the credit. Or have a 7-11 run for you that you can get player credit for...
I know that I would love to have the chance to play 4-08 or 4-10, I think they are, the early scenarios in the Lissala sub-plot. Given my work and gaming schedule, it would have to be on Friday night, though. ;) Saturday is our local Game Day, and I work the other evenings.