Zen-archers


Rules Questions

Silver Crusade

If a zen-archer has combat reflexes does he get an AoO with his bow on people next to him that he could normally reach with unarmed strike?

(victim)(victim)(victim)
(victim)(Zen-Archer)(victim)
(victim)(victim)(victim)

So anyone of these that is a victim around the zen-archer who provokes an AoO can be fired at with a bow by the zen-archer according to the Advanced Player's Guide correct? Doesn't firing a bow provoke an AoO thought so the zen-archer would be opening himself up to an AoO from all of them?

Shadow Lodge Contributor

I don't recall what level, but I believe Zen Archers get Point Blank Master for free at some point, which lets them take AoO attacks with their bow without provoking.

Silver Crusade

Thats at level 3, but first two levels if they do shoot a bow they provoke and if they use combat relfexes first two levels they provoke. Just wierd.


There is a feat that lets you take AOOS with a bow as if it was a reach weapon, but i don't see anything inherent in the zen archer that lets them do so.

The zen archer appears to keep improved unarmed strike, so while he doesn't threaten with the bow, he still threatened with the foot.


Your not threatening them with your bow though, not until 9th where you have an effective snap shot anyway. Your threatening them with an unarmed strike. I don't think you can fire with a bow because you threaten them with a kick to the face, but I've never had to look at whether you could do that or not.

Yes, if you fire with your bow in melee you provoke until 3rd level with a Zen Archer. At 9th you threaten melee with a bow. Zen Archer gets lots of nice things.

Silver Crusade

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Point Blank Master just means that you don't provoke an AoO yourself when you shoot from a threatened square. The normal feat to threaten squares with your bow is Snap Shot. However, Zen Archers do threaten with their unarmed strikes on the squares around them, just not with their bows. Reflexive Shot, that Zen Archers get at 9th level -does- allow them to take attacks of opportunity using their bows into the squares they threaten with their unarmed attacks.

reflexive shot

PRD wrote:
Reflexive Shot (Ex): At 9th level, a zen archer can make attacks of opportunity with arrows from his bow. The monk still threatens squares he could reach with unarmed strikes, and can still only make one attack of opportunity per round (unless he has Combat Reflexes). This ability replaces improved evasion.

Edit: Ninjaed

Silver Crusade

Ok does a zen archer still get the feats and stuff per level that a monk gets like normal except for when under the zen archer it mentions stuff that replace stuff a monk gets? For instance it don't mention a zen archer gets unarmed strike since i don't see them getting it in the advance players guide for zen archers or do they get it because their basic core class monk gets it?


My understanding is that unless an archetype notes that it replaces or modifies a base class feature, you can assume that the character receives it as normal.


4/Alchemist
16/Zen Archer
GO!!!!!!


Its a rules hole.

Really its 2 weapon fighting and to be legal within the intent and balances of the current rules you could take -2 to hit with your bow and then get attacks of opportunity with unarmed (at -2).

Otherwise you cannot get attacks of opportunity unless you can with your primary designated weapon (bow with those snap shot/point blank feats).

That said it's an uncommon game, and definitely a rare one that's referred to on the boards, that makes you have any penalty.

Bonuses are favored over penalties here and the rationale follows from there!

Liberty's Edge

insaneogeddon wrote:

Its a rules hole.

Really its 2 weapon fighting and to be legal within the intent and balances of the current rules you could take -2 to hit with your bow and then get attacks of opportunity with unarmed (at -2).

Otherwise you cannot get attacks of opportunity unless you can with your primary designated weapon (bow with those snap shot/point blank feats).

That said it's an uncommon game, and definitely a rare one that's referred to on the boards, that makes you have any penalty.

Bonuses are favored over penalties here and the rationale follows from there!

There is so much wrong information here. . .

Two weapon fighting doesn't apply to attacks of opportunity. Two weapon fighting is specifically the use of a second weapon to gain additional attacks during your turn. You are trying to apply a rule where it really doesn't fit.

Also, in the advice forum we try and help people optimize their bonuses while minimizing their penalties, that's called giving advice. In the rules forum we answer rules questions, rather they give bonuses or penalties is irrelevant.


poundpuppy30 wrote:
Ok does a zen archer still get the feats and stuff per level that a monk gets like normal except for when under the zen archer it mentions stuff that replace stuff a monk gets? For instance it don't mention a zen archer gets unarmed strike since i don't see them getting it in the advance players guide for zen archers or do they get it because their basic core class monk gets it?

The way archetypes work is this.

Build a monk. Give it everything the Monk gets.

Look at the archetype.

Every time it says 'This replaces <blah>', erase <blah> from the monk you built, and then add in the new ability.

When you've done this for all abilities, you are done.

When you level up, add in whatever a Monk gets for that level.

Look at the archetype.

If it replaces something you just got, erase the item it replaces and write in the new ability.

Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

Once you've done that a few times, you'll be able to shortcut the write/erase/replace mechanic and just put the powers in directly. But it's a good exercise to figure out how they work.


2 weapon does not apply to attacks of opportunity specifically but if you intend to use a secondary weapon for attacks of opportunity you have to have been taking the penalties for the entire round to allow you to do so.

Sczarni

insaneogeddon wrote:


2 weapon does not apply to attacks of opportunity specifically but if you intend to use a secondary weapon for attacks of opportunity you have to have been taking the penalties for the entire round to allow you to do so.

I believe that is wrong. Two-weapon fighting bonuses & penalties end at the end of your trn.

You may be confusing it with Power Attack in that the bonuses & penalties would persist until the start of your next turn (if I recall correctly).


Krodjin wrote:
insaneogeddon wrote:


2 weapon does not apply to attacks of opportunity specifically but if you intend to use a secondary weapon for attacks of opportunity you have to have been taking the penalties for the entire round to allow you to do so.

I believe that is wrong. Two-weapon fighting bonuses & penalties end at the end of your trn.

You may be confusing it with Power Attack in that the bonuses & penalties would persist until the start of your next turn (if I recall correctly).

Relevant text, probably important. Good news is this is a FAQs that actually clarifies something instead of a FAQs that is errata.

FAQs of Life Blog wrote:

If you use Two-Weapon Fighting on your turn to attack with two weapons, do you also take that penalty on attacks of opportunity made before the start of your next turn? How long do the penalties last?

No, the penalties end as soon as you have completed the full-attack action that allowed you to attack with both weapons. Any attacks of opportunity you make are at your normal attack bonus. Generally speaking, penalties on attacks made during your turn do not carry over to attacks of opportunity unless they specifically state otherwise (such as the penalty from using Power Attack).

Power Attack wrote:
You must choose to use this feat before making an attack roll, and its effects last until your next turn. The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage.


Krodjin wrote:
I believe that is wrong. Two-weapon fighting bonuses & penalties end at the end of your trn.

Even less than that.. they only apply for the attacks within the full attack sequence.

If an enemy somehow provoked from the TWfighter during the full attack, the AOO would not suffer penalties.

-James


james maissen wrote:
Krodjin wrote:
I believe that is wrong. Two-weapon fighting bonuses & penalties end at the end of your trn.

Even less than that.. they only apply for the attacks within the full attack sequence.

If an enemy somehow provoked from the TWfighter during the full attack, the AOO would not suffer penalties.

-James

"I ready an attack to attack the guy with two weapons after he makes his first attack on my buddy. Oh, I don't have improved grapple."

Just in case someone wanted to try to say that wasn't possible. Now we have an AoO provoked in the middle of a TWF attack, and it would be made at full BAB.

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