Goblin Squad Member
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Holding onto my hood for this one... "Got Contention?"
MMOs are plagued with the arguments over the issue of Group Loot drops. Points of contention are usually associated with:
1. Bind on Pick-up
2. Bind on Equip
3. Mob Boss Drops (Rare Gear)
4. The usual "Need, Greed, Pass" system
5. Group Leader settings
6. Auto Coin distribution (usually not contentious)
My personal view is that there should be many options in the Group Leader's Menu to set these and even to tweak their outcomes.
Examples:
Group Leader can toggle on or off BOP and BOE.
Group Leader can set the Maximum Roll of "Need" or "Greed". Eliminating the automatic "Need" override of "Greed", but perhaps still favoring "Need" with a higher minimum roll."
Group Leader can set Auto Coin Distribution to include the settlement coffers as a party member. He or she can also set the number of shares party members get.
Group Leader can save these setting for all future groups.
When joining a group, the player is notified of the group settings currently in affect.
MOB Boss Drops:
Tokens! Everyone gets Tokens and they can then buy what they want. No more grinding for that rare drop. By far the worse travesty in MMO gaming, followed closely by the escort-the-aggro-magnet-moron missions.
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Goblin Squad Member
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"By far the worse travesty in MMO gaming, followed closely by the escort-the-aggro-magnet-moron missions."
LOL. I had to laugh at this. Its so true.
On topic. The only thing Ill add is that some of your options probably wont ever be needed, because of the craft-centric nature of the game. That being said, I fully support tokens. Never been a fan of the RNG, and my years in FFXI with its 2-3 hour endgame events with damnable 5%-10% drop rates didn't help. Tokens are the best balance for not giving too much grind, and being able to see/show steady progression for your efforts. Instead of being either blessed or cursed by the RNG Gods.
Ill never forget the time a buddy of mine got the "speed belt" 1/1. I on the other hand was 1/173.......... need I say more?
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Goblin Squad Member
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As others have pointed out, you'll need to be next to the husk and avoid getting interrupted by taking damage (damage keeps you from accessing the loot during the waiting period, and knocks you out of the loot panel).
We'll try to add whatever convenience features we can get in. You probably don't want it too convenient, though; in addition to searching the husk taking time you may not have if you're still in a fight, auto-looting all may load you down with heavy things that you might not want. You may not want your victim's entire collection of low-Quality logs slowing you down when his buddies are coming in for payback.
We don't currently expect to have item binding (in the sense that they cannot be given to/stolen by others once you've picked them up or equipped them).
Just going to throw this in the thread for relevance, particularly the last part there. From the sound of it, whoever loots the body gets it, and can trade after. Since the only things that will be dropping gear are other PCs, I don't see much need for a great deal of complexity in the system.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Bluddwolf
Some of your suggestions look fine, to me, and some usually come standard. Some of the suggestions seem already addressed, as do some of the loot issues pointed out.
I am not a fan of the Need, Greed, Pass system but I will bet that something like it is what we get.
Please NO TOKENS! Buying "loot" from a prize booth after the adventure is just immersion breaking IMO. It seems too reminiscent of Theme Parks.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Please NO TOKENS! Buying "loot" from a prize booth after the adventure is just immersion breaking IMO. It seems too reminiscent of Theme Parks.
The alternative is not only immersion breaking, it is community breaking as well.
How immersive is it to kill the same boss, in the same dungeon, 15 times, just to get a chance to get that rare phatlootz?
Yes, I know the Devs have said, there will be few pre-made dungeons. But, escalations will eventually spawn a "Boss", if left unattended long enough. This boss may not drop equipment loot, but I'm assuming they will drop a greater amount of coin and less common or even rare crafting materials. These items will be what members of a group will hope to gain for themselves.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Honestly (I must not get around) I've never heard of the token system, or if it was in a game I've played, I must have ignored it.
My hope is that grouping/partying in PFO will be a more thoughtful experience. If we're not rushing to do dungeons, instances, raids, etc. so as to gain XP, perhaps there won't be the urgency to group with just anyone, and we can avoid some of the systems required to keep party members from "stealing" loot from one another and having such groups exploding into in-fighting over who got what.
Also, in a free-for-all PvP world, if someone is being a total jerk, there is always the option to whack them...something you can't do in most other games. If they're being that much of a pain, it might be worth the alignment and rep hit. There's nothing quite like impending death to help people play nice.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The alternative is not only immersion breaking, it is community breaking as well.
That is an interestingly excited point of view.
If party members can't agree to divide loot in an amicable way then,
The party leader divides it. If that is not good enough, then,
A random roll determines first pick.
Is there some better way?
Tokens would just wreck too many things GW wants for the game.
I kind of agree with the no tokens in that I had the same problem as with rare loot drops, at some point it takes alot of tokens to get the good loot, because the difficulty is greater. I remember having to farm for tokens, and I just fell PFO shouldn't be about farming monsters for loot.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I said it before, but with a craft centric nature I doubt there will be a need for a need/greed or token system. And yes this is a sandbox and token systems are very themepark. But seriously I don't care how bad any of you think a token system is, because you have obviously never encountered the true horror of rare drop rates. I did 1 endgame activity with a friend for 3 years (2 times a week for 3 hrs) and he NEVER got his drop. I never want to see this insanity in a game ever again. If anyone has a better idea than tokens, that's not the RNG Im all ears.
I said it before, but with a craft centric nature I doubt there will be a need for a need/greed or token system. And yes this is a sandbox and token systems are very themepark. But seriously I don't care how bad any of you think a token system is, because you have obviously never encountered the true horror of rare drop rates. I did 1 endgame activity with a friend for 3 years (2 times a week for 3 hrs) and he NEVER got his drop. I never want to see this insanity in a game ever again. If anyone has a better idea than tokens, that's not the RNG Im all ears.
That's part of my point. We are lucky that most of the good gear will be player made, because if we had to rely on drops and tokens we'd be SOL (screwed of loot.) And further, I couldn't even get to the super rare loot drops because I couldn't collect enough tokens to get good enough gear to get to those rare drops.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I suppose you could be right. Then I ask 2 things. At what point is it not ridiculous? 20%, 50%? You do know that the RNGs follow an algorithim and just because the drop rate is 50% does not mean you get it in 1 or 2 tries? Ive done such events, some people got it in 1 or 2 tries, some got it in 3 to 8 tries. So even with good drop rates, youcould still have bad luck. I guess they could go 100%....... but for "epiclootzomg" Ive never seen any developer do this in mmos
Simple solution to token immersion breaking: replacing tokens with exotic components used in best items - dragon teeth, demon lord blood, fey lady hairlock, elder elemental essences... Want to craft your legendary weapon? Assemble a highly skilled party and follow through series of events to reach the lair of exotic monster, for example: to get elder elemental essences the whole company has to work together gathering materials for ritual that opens gate that will conjure elder elemental and then they have to defeat it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You know what guys until devs say there even is any epic loot drops, this is probably a non issue. Though my choice would be no epics, crafted goods only. Someone gets a nice sword from PvP that you wanted, make it, have guildy make it, trade for it, or buy it.
@ Hobs
As to what a token system is, its pretty simple. Instead of rare drops and convoluted rolling or need/greed systems for gaining and distributing loot from a boss. Kill boss get specific amounts of a special currency (usually dungeon/boss specific), repeat till you have enough, then turn in for item. So say its 10 tokens per run, and that sword you want is 100 tokens. Run it 10 times, then purchase sword. If they do the lore right, its no more gamebreaking then why a dragon would drop the sword that just happens to be named after him. I mean is he also a master blacksmith, or did he poop it out?
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Greedalox
Nihimon could find the quote, but I am too lazy. Loot from PVE will be coin and materials from crafting. Well actually, almost all loot is how I believe it was put. Guess they are leaving wiggle room.
I don't think anyone said that tokens would be game breaking, just opinion that they are icky. Who would craft and sell these "items" bought for tokens? If it is any other than players, then my opinion remains: BOOOO!
Breaks down the whole economy, as planned.
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Goblin Squad Member
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My main issue is with the "Need, Greed, Pass" system. I'm sure there will be instances where loot dropped, regardless of its form, will be contested.
If all loot drops are nothing more than coin and materials, then equal distribution is possible.
No Bluddwolf, you have a valid point that "rare" component drops will be squabbled over. If 1 Red Dragon Claw is worth enough, there will be some people crying.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well if its just rare components. Wouldn't it work like a normal corpse loot? First come first serve. In a random group, I see no problem. In guild setting, either the leader or someone else is the designated looter or else have anyone loot it then turn it over to the leader. The leader decides what to do with it. Give it to a crafter, sell it for guild/settlement expenses, sell it an redistribute......
If someone is dishonest (ninja looting, etc) kick them from the organization and spread the word publicly of what they did and what your response was. In a game about reputation, this would be a sentence to exile. Outside of that, trust the guild leader to do what is best. If you think the leader to only be acting in his own self interest, or if you disagree with the decision, then you are free to leave the guild/settlement/etc.
Maybe a round-robin system where you go "okay, that guy hasn't gotten anything in a while, it's his turn."
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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It would be nice to have a centralized 'rolling' system when a random person is desired to have precedence. It would also be nice if reputation could be modified up or down by the other members of your group, and if recently looted items (however that is defined) are guaranteed to be on a husk.
Because someone being petty should have some type of punishment, and a group willing to take the alignment, Reputation, and word-of-mouth hit to betray someone and take what their share should be able to. I think that, most of all, will encourage high-reputation players to be upfront about how they are going to split things in order to prevent disagreements later on.
I think that the escalation artifacts are going to be seriously contested, and if there are different organizations competing for them it might well be the case that the dragon is killed by a lone Bard while seven armies fight over the treasure.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Under no circumstances do I want to see 'Master Looting'. It is just a tool for children or emotionally underdeveloped adults to act out their power fantasies. Some people use it in a good way, but they are far outnumbered.
It's like DRM, it screws over honest people most of the time.
No equipment should drop, everything that drops should basically be currency(coin/tokens), crafting components, or salvageable items. And be numerous enough that they can be spread evenly.
For unique rewards, I have two additions:
Sponsors: Sponsor parties, and provide payment in return for the unique loot. They can be part of the party, or sitting comfortably in a chair back at their inn.
Intelligence Reports: Outlines a mission to get a unique item.
The way this works is, scouts/adventurers go out exploring, when they find a unique item guarded by group of NPC's, they can create an Intelligence Report. Higher skilled reports contain more information about the guards, all rewards are present on a lv 1 report. These reports are by no means unique, multiple reports can be created from the same instance, and the instances could naturally move/disappear, so prices should end up being low, due to the uncertain nature of the report. Until you own the report, you don't know the exact location, just the general region, and 'level' of enemies.
A sponsor will buy these reports(or make their own), probably scout out the location, to make sure it is still there, and then form a party with a sponsorship contract. The contract has an option for up-front, and completion rewards, with the requirement of the unique loot reaching a designated storage container*.
Before you accept a sponsorship contract, you are made aware of the award, so players can ensure they aren't being paid pennies to retrieve legendary items. Party member see as much of the contract as one would see before buying it, so they have a general idea of what they are getting into, but not enough to reliably find the location.
*If the sponsor is in the party, they have to safely get them home to complete the contract.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would like to see group negotiated contract style looting, but with the mechanic that anyone who is not part of the group can ninja-loot it first if they are fast enough.
So at the start of the group, everyone agrees on a contract system for their share:
% of coin/valuables
name of a specific item
types of armor/weapons/consumables
With the group leader being the default catch all, and decider for conflicts ( like if multiple players are looking for a specific item, or if members drop out and the excess % needs to be allocated)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well, getting "That one rare drop" I don't believe will be an issue. The reason I don't think it will be an issue is that there won't be regular raids to go kill the same big boss every week.
Instead, you'll have to search for strongholds to break into every time you want to go "raid". These will be a new one with a different group of baddies running it each time. Loot will probably be randomly generated from a couple tables grabbing an item type, subtype, and lob a series of keywords onto it and then randomly generate a cool name for it based on those keywords. That's if the looting is setup like a traditional theme-park MMO.
What I'm guessing (based on some random comments from the Goblinworks guys) is that you'll kill the boss and he'll have whatever he was using on him. Otherwise, you'll raid his treasure trove and find a bunch of gold, crafting materials, wondrous items, potions, and a few randomly created weapons/armor in the method I listed above. You'll probably also find more general quality items as well that could be sold.
Really, don't expect to see things laid out at all like a traditional MMO.
I agree with Xaer that a contract system would probably be negotiated, but even that gets sketchy when you start listing out items that have to be compared against regional trading posts in order to figure out their value.
You'll probably be doing this in well defined groups from your chartered company, settlement, or kingdom as there will be no "Random Dungeon Finder" nor "Random Raid Finder". There will likely be an internal organizational structure about how you distribute loot (DKP, Suicide Kings, Loot Council, etc) specific to the group you run with that figures out how to split things out and keeps a cut for the overarching organization itself.
So, only run with people you trust. Ninja-looters will be thrown out of their respective organizations, have bounties put on them, and will have people hunt them down in game to exact just punishment for their crimes.
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Goblin Squad Member
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According to the River Freedoms, "You have what you hold." If someone from your group or a different group grabs something that you think belongs to you, it's up to you to remedy that.
I wonder how GW will handle Blue on Blue PvP? But, your idea is definitely a lore based solution. Perhaps this is where the Betrayor / Traitor flag will come in?
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Goblin Squad Member
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How about something like a "Loot Table Window" at the end of the adventure? All the items are displayed in a shared window, at the end, and the party divides it according to how they do things. Some options settled on before the adventure. Turns, Leader picks, whatever. The system won't let you pick until your turn.
Until the end of the run, the weight/encumberance is split evenly.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Question - if player interaction and all its possible results are the stuff of sandboxes, why are we trying to create a mechanic to police the interaction of divvying up loot? I know its often a bone of contention within parties, but unlike most MMOs, if someone is being that big of a yahoo, there are ways to deal with him. I'm starting to worry that we are creating too many game mechanics where player decisions and actions should be calling the shots.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I suspect people will say that if they kill someone for not playing fair with loot, they will take a rep hit. Perhaps you handle it like any other contract...you have several options for looting at the start of the party, everyone signs onto that looting format, and if you break it, you take the rep hit and the thief flag?
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I suspect people will say that if they kill someone for not playing fair with loot, they will take a rep hit. Perhaps you handle it like any other contract...you have several options for looting at the start of the party, everyone signs onto that looting format, and if you break it, you take the rep hit and the thief flag?
This, without most of the mechanical aspect.
You join a group, and when you leave it everyone has a chance to modify reputation up or down arbitrarily. If you try to steal something from the majority they have the option of killing you and possibly suffering alignment penalties or just downvoting you as a thief. If the majority decide to steal from you, you have a few options, but I think none of them result in you getting what was agreed beforehand. However, you can certainly downrep them and publish your story so word will get around, making it much less likely that they will get more chumps.
If we can make the social player interactions guarantee that betraying an agreement is never in one's own best interests for more than a very short term, then we don't have to worry about making such behavior literally impossible.
I suspect people will say that if they kill someone for not playing fair with loot, they will take a rep hit. Perhaps you handle it like any other contract...you have several options for looting at the start of the party, everyone signs onto that looting format, and if you break it, you take the rep hit and the thief flag?
Couldnt agree more Hobs
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Goblin Squad Member
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Under no circumstances do I want to see 'Master Looting'. It is just a tool for children or emotionally underdeveloped adults to act out their power fantasies. Some people use it in a good way, but they are far outnumbered.
It's like DRM, it screws over honest people most of the time.
Master Looting is great when you're in a group of people you know and trust, and it's necessary when you're using a DKP (Dragon Kill Points) system that is managed outside of the game.
It's terrible for PUG (Pick-Up Group) Raids, and I would never join a PUG Raid that was set to Master Looter.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The real issues with loot division will mostly be in PUG situations, I would hope. Prior raid agreements are great and physical in-game contracts for them would be nice.
The real question is do we want the flavor of mechanics that allow individuals to be able to steal loot on the sly or grab and dash? Should those mechanics be actionable even with a prior signed contract?
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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If contracts in general aren't magically binding, I can't see why they would be when used in any one specific context.
That said, I don't have any problem with magical contracts transferring coin or other forfeits automatically, or having other characteristics that qualify as 'magically binding'. For example, a group could contract amongst themselves and each put up a prohibitive amount of coin in proxy subject to forfeit if they violate the terms.
No one solution will work for all cases, because fairness is not a design goal- meaningful interaction is.
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Goblin Squad Member
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To chime in on the original topic, what I would really like to see is a system where characters don't have to actively loot anything, and don't have any say whatsoever about who gets what, but instead the "loot" is tradable, automatically assigned to each character, and doled out in portions such that, if the devs want it to take about 10 trips to get a particular item, then each trip awards 1/10th of the item.
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I think it would be a nice feature if the developers allowed there to be something like a "shared loot inventory" that the party members can always access as long as one or more of them are carrying it, and they are out of combat to retrieve the goods.
I know for a fact that this is how a number of TTop players handle it in a dungeon, or out in the field exploring, we write everything down on a list as we get it and if anyone wants something in particular they negotiate it with the rest of the group if there is a contest for it. That way groups can go about looting the dungeon for the 1-5 hours they are likely to be "at-it" and they can all just toss it on the master list to divide up as they choose at a later time.
Worst case scenario someone has to get offline and they arent around for the looting, but the Devs have already said that PCs will persist in the world in some way even when they are logged offline, and if this is the case there should be nothing keeping the remaining party from splitting the treasure with that PC anyhow whenever they need.
Also when it comes down to those really rare "Dragons Claw" type items, I think the corpse should produce a reasonable amount of the material so that nobody gets left out. 4 Claws per dragon, 1 Heart, 1 Skull, 200lbs of Dragon-Bone, and 50sq Feet of Dragon-Scale. That is unless you brought a Wizard with Disintegrate along, in which case you get Nosching!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Also when it comes down to those really rare "Dragons Claw" type items, I think the corpse should produce a reasonable amount of the material so that nobody gets left out. 4 Claws per dragon, 1 Heart, 1 Skull, 200lbs of Dragon-Bone, and 50sq Feet of Dragon-Scale. That is unless you brought a Wizard with Disintegrate along, in which case you get Nosching!
I am of the opposite opinion. I would like to see really rare items... well, really rarely drop. Seems like that would keep them rare.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I really like Gregg Reece's comment above: "What I'm guessing (based on some random comments from the Goblinworks guys) is that you'll kill the boss and he'll have whatever he was using on him. Otherwise, you'll raid his treasure trove and find a bunch of gold, crafting materials, wondrous items, potions, and a few randomly created weapons/armor in the method I listed above. You'll probably also find more general quality items as well that could be sold."
It would be quite original for an MMO to have a loot list generated when the "boss/leader" is spawned (or even the miscellaneous hobgoblin_0345), and then have the creature actually use the items during the fight! Varied as they may be; it would add some excitement to certain encounter types and potentially could make some MUCH more challenging depending on the length and potency of the item list.
While some charged-type items (such as potions / wands) might be used up, it would not affect the generation of an appropriate "Creature_01-type" table crafting related items and scaled-to-level-of-creature_01-with-random-effect(s) weapons/armor/misc items, unless limited to certain classes. it would be another discussion if an alignment or class restrictions would apply to the hobgoblin_0345 example.
As a possible solution to the N/G/P and master looter problem, I might suggest having each player involved in the kill receive their "own" loot table for randomly generated items. This could also eliminate the need for a "loot box". Then they could optionally choose to keep it for future sales or give to a friend or guild mate. Maybe if it is meant to be BoP, it could be traded to party members as long as they remain grouped (or a specific timeframe after looting). However, please let's have no "four" heads on each bandit, one for each party member.
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Also when it comes down to those really rare "Dragons Claw" type items, I think the corpse should produce a reasonable amount of the material so that nobody gets left out. 4 Claws per dragon, 1 Heart, 1 Skull, 200lbs of Dragon-Bone, and 50sq Feet of Dragon-Scale. That is unless you brought a Wizard with Disintegrate along, in which case you get Nosching!I am of the opposite opinion. I would like to see really rare items... well, really rarely drop. Seems like that would keep them rare.
I agree that certain materials should be rare, but I think that the function of their rarity should be flipped on its head from what MMO's typically use.
That being instead of having a loot list of items and harvestables available to loot on death, perhaps each corpse will have only its ruined gear (Salvageable at best) and whatever physical components that given creature actually IS. In our case we want really rare material like Dragon-Scale for our discussion.
In the past MMO paradigm, you would have to go out accomplish a few things.
1) Find the Dragons. Typically pretty easy to do in most MMO themeparks as long as you are of sufficient level.
2) Slay the Dragons. Usually these kind of high grade material, lets say Quality (300) for argument sake. So this kind of material is very valuable, so it will be guarded by high level monsters, and as such the developers cannot allow a flood of the material.
3) Farm the Dragon "Zone." Sometimes it would take hours, if not days to get enough that you need, as they are dealing with the typical wash/rinse/repeat respawning kind of world the Dragons they have access to is practically limitless, HOWEVER, the chance of the drop rate is something like -1%
I would like to see a system where there is more emphasis on step number 1 (Being that actually locating the Dragon). We will be relying on Monster Hexes to develop and eventually escalate into monster attacks. This will be the primary supply of higher level, and more fortified enemies. Dragons are if not THE Kings of Kingdom Attack, rank among the most iconic encounters the Fantasy RPG has to offer. During this escalation info will come that a Dragon Lieutenant, or Major, or otherwise is located 3 Hexes into dangerous Wilderness Hexes. Once the party rallies, and chops the creature to bits, there is nothing in the system to respawn said Dragon.
Once our Dragon has been looted once, the lair has been plundered, and the treasure dragged home, the party would certainly be upset if their Dragon failed to yield the arbitrarily "Rare" quality (300) Dragon-Scale. It's not like they can just go out and prepare to go out to find more dragons spontaneously. In fact I anticipate people treating certain Escalation Cycles like they would treat the respawn rate of Iron, Herbs, or other treasure.
My point here is, sure Unicorn Horn SHOULD be really rare, but NOT because you have to kill 40 Unicorns to get the item, but because FINDING and CLAIMING the kill are going to be significantly more involved than walking up to the Unicorn Spawning Hole Cave v.048b.
Hope I'm not coming off poorly, just trying to help think outside the preestablished norms. :D
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Goblin Squad Member
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Carbon,
What you're saying is perfectly clear and I hope that's the way it works. The drop rate isn't rare - which leads to grinding. Instead, finding the creature and being able to kill it is the rare event - which leads to genuine exploration, tracking, assembling a skilled enough team to slay it, etc.
The way monster hexes and escalations are planned to work, it keeps players guessing and keeps us searching for those rarities. It's not as simple as knowing exactly which dungeon and which room (both static locations in other games), then only a matter of patience as you keep killing the mob over and over again. Anything that makes us actually have to search, plan, and work together is a good thing in my book.
Great suggestion.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Carbon
Now that you have elaborated your point more, I can say that it makes more sense. I didn't really look at it from that angle. Maybe I was using a remnant of theme park thinking. =P
As long as the beastie itself is very rare, the encounter is fleshed out with minions for more content, and takes a coordinated effort, then I have no problem with a little larger payout. Just as long as those very rare components remain very rare and never flood the market.
I agree: no unicorn spawn holes!
Your idea keeps rares, both rare and difficult.
Well done. :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Possible Loot Methods...
5-Finger Discount - Pocket something when no one is looking. Sleight of Hand check vs an opposed perception check. Each pocketed item makes to easier to be detected next time.
Contract - Player X is interested in crafting mats. Player Y is interested in gear. Player Z just wants a larger cut of the cash.
Need/Greed/Pass - Old, tried, true, hated by a lot of people. You've got the jerks that just 'need' everything instead of using it appropriately.
Round Robin - Each person is assigned an item that they get. Lots of strange loopholes and usually doesn't come out fair. Often combined with the need/greed/pass system to better deal with rare items.
Open Loot - Free For All. Again, often combined with Need/Greed/Pass to deal with rare items.
Loot Table - A big list of all of the loot. Players can choose a variety of methods to distribute items including some of the methods listed above. Also, a switchback draft system could be used in combination (example order: A, B, C, D, D, C, B, A, A , B, C, D ...) which has its own advantages and disadvantages.
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Goblin Squad Member
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i would perfer no tokens however only because of this. i would perfer that basically nothing drop anything but very basic T1 starter gear as completed items.
So i understand that if you kill a dragon and loot its hoard it makes sense that it would have a +3 sword in there, however i would much perfer that you find a couple ehhh T1 gear then the big prize everyone wants is that the dragon either drops scales (for armor), teeth/claws (for weapons), blood...etc or you get a shiny jewel or other component from the horde.
thats what everyone should be fighting for; rare materials used so that PLAYERS craft all of the gear.
As so how this actually works.....im kinda fond of one game where when loot is dropped each person gets their own drop. So in the above instance you might have a 10% chance to get a rare material. Then you get a random one of the rare mats. So all 100 people who helped kill the Demilich loots the demilich and each person has a 1% chance to get the rare mat. That way no one can talk about ninja stealing loot and its fair for everyone.
This might seem like an odd idea, but maybe a merchant char. could, if people aren't entirely happy with the way loot was distributed, take it all, and then see everyone was given the equivalent amount of money the entire venture earned. the problem would be resting the loot from the one who benefitted...
Afterwards you could attempt to buy it back, but then you might have to pay exorbitant fees to get it back....
The system might need work. Thoughts?