Quickdraw, Quickdraw Shield and reach weapon


Rules Questions


Hi all

I’d like to see opinions on this.

A character:
Is carrying a bardiche in two hands
Has a quickdraw shield stowed
Has the Quickdraw, Combat Reflexes and Shield Slam (from Ranger style) feats.

An enemy moves into melee (provoking an attack of opportunity) and takes its attack.

The character releases one hand from his bardiche (Free Action)

Draws Quickdraw shield (Free Action)

Attacks with shield, getting a free bullrush and pushing the enemy back 5 feet

Takes 5’ step back

Stows quickdraw shield (Free action)

Regrips bardiche in two-hands (Free action)

There is now 10’ between the combatants and the enemy will get another AoO moving in.

I guess it looks legal to me, but whether or not a DM will allow 4 free actions is the killer. GM discretion is always thorny!


Except that you can't take a 5' step as part of a AoO nor does a person provoke AoO twice from the same action, in this case moving.

That's without taking into account that you can't do free actions outside your turn. (except for speaking)

So no. The OP combination of actions do not work.

You could get 3 levels in Phalanx fighter archetype and carry that two handed reach weapon in one hand instead.

Silver Crusade

Assuming that you are trying to do all that on YOUR turn (avianfoo is right that you can't do it on your AOO but I don't think you intend to) then it all looks fine to me. Quite entertaining and a fairly different build. I'd expect some GM vzriation, however.

But it isn't really all that powerful. You've spent 3 feats on all this and the end result is to get an extra attack of opportunity and some interesting repositioning. It should be effective but its not exactly game breaking. There are lots of things out there at least as effective.


Since it's not made clear in your example, I will say that you can't do any of those things with an AoO, but you can do all of those things on your turn.

So, provided you have the room to maneuver, thats a good way to get a full-attack and an AoO while limiting your opponent to a single attack

Shadow Lodge

Also pretty sure you can't take an AoO with a weapon you weren't threatening with when the AoO was provoked (the shield in this case).


Sorry my bad, should have been clearer. I take the AoO with my bardiche on the enemy's turn (for his movement through a threatened square), then do my shield slam and the rest in my own turn, which ends with me in a position to do it all again.

Featwise the only ones really necessary are Quickdraw and Shield Slam, which can be taken at 2nd level from the ranger combat style.

Shadow Lodge

Ah, given that it's happening on your turn I think it's technically legal but definitely subject to GM discretion on the re-grips. I believe SKR said that one de-grip and one re-grip was a reasonable limitation and you're using two of each.


Weirdo wrote:
Ah, given that it's happening on your turn I think it's technically legal but definitely subject to GM discretion on the re-grips. I believe SKR said that one de-grip and one re-grip was a reasonable limitation and you're using two of each.

I only count one of each. Or are you counting drawing a shield as a 'grip' rather than a 'don'?


Four free actions is a lot to get past a GM I think, so I don't imagine this will see the light of day in my game.

I thought of it because I'm considering playing a two-handed weapon using Ranger, but the two-handed combat style feats are uninspiring. Shield Slam is a pretty decent feat to get at second level, so I was trying to make it work in some way.

Switch hitting with archery style is attractive on paper but many years of D&D have taught me that dropping your expensive magical composite bow on the ground in the middle of a fight is a very bad idea, and putting it away is a move action that provokes AoO.


Durinor wrote:
Stows quickdraw shield (Free action)

As a free action you could drop a shield but I don't see anything under Quickdraw or Combat: Free Actions that allow stowing something as a free action.

Grand Lodge

You are fine.

Quickdraw Shields allow you to stow, or don, the Shield as a free action, if you have the Quickdraw feat.


Ahh I see now. Sorry, I was thinking of the Quickdraw feat not a magic item. Thanks blackbloodtroll!

Grand Lodge

No. Quickdraw Shields are mundane shields, that have special features.


Durinor wrote:

Four free actions is a lot to get past a GM I think, so I don't imagine this will see the light of day in my game.

I thought of it because I'm considering playing a two-handed weapon using Ranger, but the two-handed combat style feats are uninspiring. Shield Slam is a pretty decent feat to get at second level, so I was trying to make it work in some way.

Switch hitting with archery style is attractive on paper but many years of D&D have taught me that dropping your expensive magical composite bow on the ground in the middle of a fight is a very bad idea, and putting it away is a move action that provokes AoO.

Are your rapid shot archers limited to less than 4 free actions? It seems like people never complain about someone taking 4-6 free actions until its considered too much. But archers routinely take 5 around and a TWF knife thrower could be taking up to 8 a round.

Sczarni

Durinor: The initial AoO granted when the enemy moves out of a threatened square would taken before he gets his attack. In other words the AoO is made with the reach weapon (use Power Attack for better results - I believe it's been clarified you can declare it on an AoO).

Presuming your enemy survives the AoO the rest Of the sequence could happen as you outlined. All should be good rules wise.


Talonhawke wrote:
Are your rapid shot archers limited to less than 4 free actions? It seems like people never complain about someone taking 4-6 free actions until its considered too much. But archers routinely take 5 around and a TWF knife thrower could be taking up to 8 a round.

Not sure I'm following you Talonhawke. What 4+ free actions are you pointing at for a "rapid shot archer" (or "But archers routinely take 5 around and a TWF knife thrower could be taking up to 8 a round.")? Feat granted attacks such as those from Rapid Shot, Greater Two Weapon Fighting or Cleave and multiple attacks due to high BAB aren't Free Actions. Those are all possible only if you make a Full Attack which is a Full Round Action (and aren't a type of action at all in and of themselves).

As for the OP's question I agree with Krodjin and as far as using 4 free actions to do it I'd probably allow it given the investment behind the activity in feats and equipment.

Sczarni

@kayerloth: he's referring to the free actions required to load & reload your bow when making all of those shots. As for the thrower build he's presumably combining rapid shot & TWF for all the extra attacks/round and the necessary free actions needed to continually draw weapons which you then throw. That's what I inferred anyhow, I could be way off.

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