Hello, I am making a fighter based on the concept of adeptus custodes (wh40k the emperor's personal guards) Thus he is a polearm master since I desire to have a long polearm to stab everything or smash or trip or whatever it is they do.
Picture: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/a/ac/Custodesimage.jpg
My main problem is that I do not know how to make a half-decent fighter to begin with, since there are so many feats.
I'd like if someone could help me with the feat selections for each level.
Stats are the following, can be switched naturally.
(no racial modifiers included)
Str: 18
Dex: 16
Con: 17
Int: 14
Wis: 16
Cha: 14
I'd like the character to be able to deal damage, but also have a half decent AC. Beyond that I only know that polearm master excells at AoO and trips and other Combat maneuvers which I am totally unexperience with.
Thanks if you read this far :) double thanks if you posted something and triple thanks if it was helpful!
Two-Handed Fighter with a Bardiche.
Could you explain a bit more? I mean why 2h fighter over polearm master?
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Two-Handed Fighter with a Bardiche.Could you explain a bit more? I mean why 2h fighter over polearm master?
2h fighter is MUCH better offensively, polearm master's flanking tricks and defensive abilities don't really compete. The bonuses to hit on AoOs aren't really needed, and attacking adjacent enemies can be done with weapon selection or taking a 5ft step.
Two-Handed Fighter with a Bardiche.Could you explain a bit more? I mean why 2h fighter over polearm master?2h fighter is MUCH better offensively, polearm master's flanking tricks and defensive abilities don't really compete. The bonuses to hit on AoOs aren't really needed, and attacking adjacent enemies can be done with weapon selection or taking a 5ft step.
Care to elaborate even more :)? I kind of see the point that the polemaster isn't that great when compared but what I see as good is the first ability where you can switch and not have to go backwards, as an example if you are flanked or back against the wall it's really useful.
Also 2h fighter can use polearms as the chosen weapons?
Would you have some feat progression suggestions concerning the 2hand fighter?
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I think pole arm master is a solid choice. yes two-handed fighter will do more damage but the pole arm master has a lot of options. Options keep the character fresh and keeps them from turning boring from doing the same thing every round. here are a few suggestions:
Don't dump your mental stats, maybe even pick up a 12-13 int. with that and being a human you can have for skills per level which is nice.
Pick up Iron will and greater iron will to you don't murder your own team.
Besides power attack and weapon focus/specialization invest in some control feats. Improved trip and bull rush are great as is disarm (if your in a humanoid heavy adventure).
I haven't played WH40K but if this buy is a guard then the trait Eyes and Ears of the city will give you perception as a class skill which is a big boon.
As a fighter your DPS will handle itself. Fill your fighter feats with fighting power and use some of your level feats to balance out your character (again iron will, maybe a skill focus).
Because you don't have armor training, buy boots of springing and striding as soon as possible to stay mobile.
Talk to other members of your party to take some teamwork feats that take advantage of your superior positioning power.
I think pole arm master is a solid choice. yes two-handed fighter will do more damage but the pole arm master has a lot of options. Options keep the character fresh and keeps them from turning boring from doing the same thing every round. here are a few suggestions:
Don't dump your mental stats, maybe even pick up a 12-13 int. with that and being a human you can have for skills per level which is nice.
Pick up Iron will and greater iron will to you don't murder your own team.
Besides power attack and weapon focus/specialization invest in some control feats. Improved trip and bull rush are great as is disarm (if your in a humanoid heavy adventure).
I haven't played WH40K but if this buy is a guard then the trait Eyes and Ears of the city will give you perception as a class skill which is a big boon.
As a fighter your DPS will handle itself. Fill your fighter feats with fighting power and use some of your level feats to balance out your character (again iron will, maybe a skill focus).
Because you don't have armor training, buy boots of springing and striding as soon as possible to stay mobile.
Talk to other members of your party to take some teamwork feats that take advantage of your superior positioning power.
I wouldn't call any of those stats really as dump stats ^^
I read somewhere that improved bull rush is way better than improved trip since most of the time you try to stay out of the enemies reach and having reach yourself so the AoO doesn't matter against medium opponents that can't reach you and our campaign is very heavy on medium creatures with very few magical ones, dragons and giants being the only ones.
I agree on the iron will since well would be embarassing if I want to make some iron will guy which at first sign of charm spells is lost like greasepit.
I'm thinking of picking a mithral breastplate so it's still 30 feet speed.
Got any suggestion what polearm I should choose?
Thanks for the advice :)
Take 2 levels in paladin (Im assuming you are lawful being a guardian). This will give you +cha to all saves which is HUGE being melee. It also gives you a 1/1 BAB so you dont lose much.
Dont dump int below 13 as you need this to have improved and greater trip which is part of the magic of fighting with a reach weapon.
Dex isnt a big deal since you will be more than likely wearing heavy plate. I would drop the dex to 12. If you insist on gimping yourself with the BP, its your call. Or if you have the cash, keep the dex and go mithral FP.
Polearm without a doubt is the Fauchard. It requires exotic weapon prof but it gives reach, trip does 1d10 dmg and crits on 18-20 so with Improved Crit, you have a crit mod of 15-20. Nice stuff there.
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Got any suggestion what polearm I should choose?
Thanks for the advice :)
I like the Fauchard. 1d10/18-20 crit range, and it has Trip. Of course, it IS an Exotic Weapon. If you don't want to blow the feat, and are more prone to disarming than triping, Ranseur is solid. 2d4/x3 damage and a bonus to disarms.
Take 2 levels in paladin (Im assuming you are lawful being a guardian). This will give you +cha to all saves which is HUGE being melee. It also gives you a 1/1 BAB so you dont lose much.
Dont dump int below 13 as you need this to have improved and greater trip which is part of the magic of fighting with a reach weapon.
Dex isnt a big deal since you will be more than likely wearing heavy plate. I would drop the dex to 12. If you insist on gimping yourself with the BP, its your call. Or if you have the cash, keep the dex and go mithral FP.
Polearm without a doubt is the Fauchard. It requires exotic weapon prof but it gives reach, trip does 1d10 dmg and crits on 18-20 so with Improved Crit, you have a crit mod of 15-20. Nice stuff there.
Sorry, not going to take paladin, won't fit the character concept.
Thanks for the weapon choice, I agree it seems great and it looks exactly like what I am wanting.
I like the Fauchard. 1d10/18-20 crit range, and it has Trip. Of course, it IS an Exotic Weapon. If you don't want to blow the feat, and are more prone to disarming than triping, Ranseur is solid. 2d4/x3 damage and a bonus to disarms.
Got any suggestion what polearm I should choose?
Thanks for the advice :)
Yes Fauchard looks just like the one, would you suggest improved trip or improved bullrush?
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Agreed with all recommendations for pole arms.
I like Imp. Bull rush but the problem is it can mess up your allies positioning. If you are the only one on the front line then it is great but if their are other melee fighters they may be upset that the can't full attack because your shoved the enemy away. Thus I like having trip a bit more.
As the fighter I would recommend heavy armor so that the cleric/healer doesn't have to spend the fight keeping you up.
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Yes Fauchard looks just like the one, would you suggest improved trip or improved bullrush?I like the Fauchard. 1d10/18-20 crit range, and it has Trip. Of course, it IS an Exotic Weapon. If you don't want to blow the feat, and are more prone to disarming than triping, Ranseur is solid. 2d4/x3 damage and a bonus to disarms.
Got any suggestion what polearm I should choose?
Thanks for the advice :)
I like Improved Trip personally. Combined with reach and Combat Reflexes, you will be granting yourself an extra attack per round from The AoO when they stand, and if you have teammates in melee too, they can make the Opportunity attacks too. If they stay down, then they are at a penalty and you are at a bonus to hit them, so that works too. When you get to Greater Trip, you can hit them as they fall as well.
Of course a 13 int for improved trip, a high dex to capitalize on combat reflexes, and a high str for hit and damage make this somewhat MAD, but not as bad as a Monk. It also takes a lot of feats, but as a fighter, you have them.
I agree with the Fauchard, that 18-20 crit range when combined with keen or improved crit goes to 15-20 and you still get 2x multiplier for damage. If you don't want to invest in the Exotic Weapon Proficiency, then go with the Bardiche in my opinion.
Go with Human for the +2 to anything and the free feat (which you can spend on the EWP). I read the other posters talking about not dropping your stats, but obviously they didn't read the insane stats you have...
Str: 20 (+2 human) - Level 8/12/16/20 bumps here
Dex: 17 (swap with Con) - I'd put my level 4 bump here to increase AC and your AoOs.
Con: 16 (swap with Dex)
Int: 14
Wis: 16
Cha: 14
Just a quick Two-Handed Fighter build I tossed together here, I'm sure some things could be moved around a bit and added/removed based on different play styles.
Level 1(H) - Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Fauchard)
Level 1(F) - Power Attack
Level 1 - Furious Focus
Level 2 - Combat Reflexes
Level 2 Ability - Shattering Strike
Level 3 - Dodge
Level 3 Ability - Overhand Chop 2x Str on 1st attack only
Level 4 - Iron Will
Level 5 - Improved Trip
Level 5 Ability - Weapon Training 1 (Pole-arms)
Level 6 - Lunge (Gain 5ft more reach for a total of 15)
Level 7 - Mobility
Level 7 Ability - Backswing 2x Str on 2nd/3rd/4th attacks only
Level 8 - Greater Trip
Level 9 - Spring Attack
Level 9 Ability - Weapon Training 2 (whatever you want)
Level 10 - Whirlwind Attack
Level 11 - Critical Focus
Level 11 Ability - Piledriver (this is nice with your tripping build)
Level 12 - Dreadful Carnage
Level 13 - Dazing Assault (Stunning Assault @ 16)
Level 13 Ability - Weapon Training 3 (whatever you want)
Level 14 - Penetrating Strike
Level 15 - Weapon Focus
Level 15 Ability - Greater Power Attack (100% Power attack??? YES PLZ)
Level 16 - Weapon Specialization
Level 16 - Retrain Dazing Assault for Stunning Assault
Level 17 - Greater Penetrating Strike
Level 17 Ability - Weapon Training 4 (whatever you want)
Level 18 - Greater Weapon Focus
Level 19 - Greater Weapon Specialization
Level 19 Ability - Devastating Blow
Level 20 - Blind Fight
The way I see this going is that you'll be able to hit hard and hit often with your power attack and combat reflexes right away during your career. Next you'll be using that great weapon to trip things that come within reach of you. Then you are able to move and attack with the spring attack (use the overhand chop with your spring attack). Then you can whirlwind with your lunge and hit everything within 15 feet of you. Soon whenever you kill something you get to use a free intimidate check with the dreadful carnage and then you can whirlwind and daze everyone you hit with the dazing assault (which gets retrained to stun at level 16). After that it's all about stacking on static damage to what you already have and bypassing your enemies' damage resistance. Finally you get blind-fight (which was the best that I could think of at level 20).
Gear - I'd try to get my favored weapon KEEN as soon as possible to take advantage of a 15-20 crit range. I'd also work on pumping up strength (i.e. belts), get things that help your natural armor, AC, and resistances (i.e. cloak), get boots of springing and striding, get gloves of dueling as well.
I agree with the Fauchard, that 18-20 crit range when combined with keen or improved crit goes to 15-20 and you still get 2x multiplier for damage. If you don't want to invest in the Exotic Weapon Proficiency, then go with the Bardiche in my opinion.
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **...
Hey, thanks for the 2h fighter build, do you possibly have something similar for a polearm master?
I originally leaned towards the polearms master since it fits better into the character concept perhaps and well seems to evolve more around the combat maneuevers. Maybe I am wrong on the CMD and CMB stuff.
Can a 2h fighter be better or well equal on the trip and such departments?
The only difference would be the archetype (special abilities) in the build. The rest would be the same if I was to do a pole-arm master build. You'd be getting the abilities to maximize your polearm rather than your 2H fighting, so you'd take a little loss in damage in comparison, but you'd gain a few neat tricks.
The only difference would be the archetype (special abilities) in the build. The rest would be the same if I was to do a pole-arm master build. You'd be getting the abilities to maximize your polearm rather than your 2H fighting, so you'd take a little loss in damage in comparison, but you'd gain a few neat tricks.
Clearly 2h fighter is better dmg wise but the difference doesn't seem immense. I find polearm more versatile in situations like when unable to retreat and etc.
Considering all, do you see that polearm masters have a huge disadvantage compared to 2handers or just a flavor difference/ role difference.
I am currently playing a fauchard wielding fighter in my Pathfinder game (we are up to level 8 right now, and planning on playing all the way to 20+) so I might be able to give a bit of advice. Last year I went over a proposed build for this character on the Enworld forums here and got some good advice and a bit of discussion going about it.
I decided to just go straight fighter with no archetypes because (just about) all of them drop Armor Training, and I personally really love that ability. Every time I would compare what a archetype gained vs it losing armor training I decided it wasn't worth it. Being able to move at full speed in platemail and being able to make use of full dex modifiers at higher levels (when martial characters will be rocking +6 dex items and maybe even some +inherent bonus to dex tomes) is too strong to pass up, imo.
If all you are concerned about is max dps then The Two-handed archetype is great for that and probably the best choice. If you just want to max out the CMB of your combat maneuvers and don't mind forsaking your Armor Class to do it then Lore Warden would have to be the best choice. For a balanced polearm build I like the base fighter class. I feel like the actual "Polearm Master" archetype is kind of weak and from a gamist standpoint would not choose it.
I agree with the Fauchard, that 18-20 crit range when combined with keen or improved crit goes to 15-20 and you still get 2x multiplier for damage. If you don't want to invest in the Exotic Weapon Proficiency, then go with the Bardiche in my opinion.
** spoiler omitted **
Level 1(H) - Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Fauchard)
Level 1(F) - Power Attack
Level 1 - Furious Focus
Level 2 - Combat Reflexes
Level 2 Ability - Shattering Strike
Level 3 - Dodge
Level 3 Ability - Overhand Chop 2x Str on 1st attack only
Level 4 - Iron Will
Level 5 - Improved Trip
Level 5 Ability - Weapon Training 1 (Pole-arms)
Level 6 - Lunge (Gain 5ft more reach for a total of 15)
Level 7 - Mobility
Level 7 Ability - Backswing 2x Str on 2nd/3rd/4th attacks only
Level 8 - Greater Trip
Level 9 - Spring Attack
Level 9 Ability - Weapon Training 2 (whatever you want)
Level 10 - Whirlwind Attack
Level 11 - Critical Focus
Level 11 Ability - Piledriver (this is nice with your tripping build)
Level 12 - Dreadful Carnage
Level 13 - Dazing Assault (Stunning Assault @ 16)
Level 13 Ability - Weapon Training 3 (whatever you want)
Level 14 - Penetrating Strike
Level 15 - Weapon Focus
Level 15 Ability - Greater Power Attack (100% Power attack??? YES PLZ)
Level 16 - Weapon Specialization
Level 16 - Retrain Dazing Assault for Stunning Assault
Level 17 - Greater Penetrating Strike
Level 17 Ability - Weapon Training 4 (whatever you want)
Level 18 - Greater Weapon Focus
Level 19 - Greater Weapon Specialization
Level 19 Ability - Devastating Blow
Level 20 - Blind Fight
I think you missed Combat expertise somewhere in that build unless you meant to take it instead of Combat reflexes (which seems not due to the mutiple AoO's from higher Dex), but then again, you can take out Blind fight for that and shift everything 1 lvl up after the adding in of combat expertise somewhere before improved trip.
I am currently playing a fauchard wielding fighter in my Pathfinder game (we are up to level 8 right now, and planning on playing all the way to 20+) so I might be able to give a bit of advice. Last year I went over a proposed build for this character on the Enworld forums here and got some good advice and a bit of discussion going about it.
I decided to just go straight fighter with no archetypes because (just about) all of them drop Armor Training, and I personally really love that ability. Every time I would compare what a archetype gained vs it losing armor training I decided it wasn't worth it. Being able to move at full speed in platemail and being able to make use of full dex modifiers at higher levels (when martial characters will be rocking +6 dex items and maybe even some +inherent bonus to dex tomes) is too strong to pass up, imo.
If all you are concerned about is max dps then The Two-handed archetype is great for that and probably the best choice. If you just want to max out the CMB of your combat maneuvers and don't mind forsaking your Armor Class to do it then Lore Warden would have to be the best choice. For a balanced polearm build I like the base fighter class. I feel like the actual "Polearm Master" archetype is kind of weak and from a gamist standpoint would not choose it.
Sounds great, hmm you haven't had any situations where the polearm masters pole fighting ability would have come to a serious use?
Could you perhaps tell me some examples of different situations where your polearm has come to real usage and where the armor mastery has been excellent?
Yeah the dex bonus does seem great and that's an excellent point to consider. Without the steadfast pike though I think polearm master would be absolutely superior compared to the vanilla fighter.
Thanks for sharing your experiences :)
Sounds great, hmm you haven't had any situations where the polearm masters pole fighting ability would have come to a serious use?
Could you perhaps tell me some examples of different situations where your polearm has come to real usage and where the armor mastery has been excellent?
Yeah the dex bonus does seem great and that's an excellent point to consider. Without the steadfast pike though I think polearm master would be absolutely superior compared to the...
Shorting your grip with Pole Fighting is situationally useful and is my favorite power that the Polearm Master archetype gains. However, there are lots of ways to work around not having it with little drawback to the character.
Most of the time you can just 5' step away from opponents and then full attack from reach. If that isn't an option for some reason you can always go with a spiked gauntlet or a cestus and as a free action just release one hand off your polearm and begin attacking with this weapon for emergency backup. I think situations where the character is somehow locked into place and unable to move (webbed or tripped or something) is where you might really get into trouble and want that pole fighting ability, but in my experience that happens pretty rarely.
As for why Armor Mastery is good? Well it lets you be more mobile on the battlefield. Gives you a higher AC if you plan on having Dex anyways, which I don't see why a melee character with Combat Reflexes wouldn't want a high dex. By level 11 it lets you use Physical Skills without penalty while wearing Mithril Full Plate (Acrobatics, Swim, Climb, Stealth, Fly, Ride, etc).