The Polymorph (Any Object) Recurrence, or: Flying Tiger Queen of the Sofa Druids

[Mat Black]

There are many results that come up when I search the messageboards for posts about Polymorph Any Object. However, my search fu is apparently failing me, and none of the posts that I found addressed the issue that just came up in tonight's game. I looked through a lot of posts, but I simply don't have the patience to sift through 53 pages of results.

The posts that I have ready through all involve turning creatures into other creatures or items into creatures. There is, however, a decided lack of discussion (that I was able to find) about turning a creature into an object.

So, in tonight's session, the PC's were facing off against a pair of Imentesh Proteans. When the wild shaped druid showed off his combat prowess, the proteans decided to put an end to it and used PAO to turn him into a sofa. The druid tanked the save. This is where the problems started, and they came in waves. I'll just address them as they came up in the game.

First, the druid had a couple of spell effects active at the time (air walk and magic fang). After some confusion, it was decided that the spell effects would end, as the sofa would not have been a valid target. This was actually somewhat important, as the druid/tiger had been air walking directly above the party's paladin who was, at that moment, unconscious and bleeding out right underneath him. So a couch ended up falling on him.

The next issue that came up was if the sofa/druid was able to just wild shape into another form on his next turn. After a LOT of looking through rules, a very important fact came to light - the rules for the polymorph subschool are pretty clearly written with only the possibility of transforming from one creature to another, and not from a creature to an object. Also, the PAO description gives rules for transforming items into creatures, but is mute on the reverse process. The main issue here was whether or not the druid kept his ability scores as a sofa. Also, at this point, it was discovered that a creature retains its type when polymorphed. This lead to thought the spell effects (air walk, magic fang) should still be in active. However, in the end, it was decided that since he had been turned into an object, which does not have a type, that the rule about creature type shouldn't actually apply. After all, the idea of a ranger with favored enemy (human) getting his bonuses on a human polymorphed into a couch was just too silly. It was further decided that as his form was completely and totally transformed into a sofa, he did not have the proper physiological systems to support any sort of intelligent - he was just a sofa, not a sentient sofa-druid.

Once the encounter was over, and the point was moot as far as the session was concerned, this particular line from the rules for the polymorph sub-school was noticed:

"You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell. "

The thought was that the druid should have been able to choose to not be affected by the PAO since he had been wild shaped at the time. However, after some post-game study, wild shape is actually a supernatural ability that mimics specific spells, not an actual polymorph spell itself.

EDIT: Probably already ninja'd, but disregard the previous. Somehow missed that wild shape is specifically called out as an example. So, even more confused, I guess.

However, that does bring up the rather strange case of a creature under the effect of Alter Self being able to shrug off a PAO - or, in other words, a 2nd level spell giving immunity to an 8th level spell.

So, while the easiest answer to this issue is simply house rule, the session in questions was a PFS game, and while everyone at the table was completely accepting of the rulings made, I'd like to get some insight from others (perhaps even a developer, should they happen across this) as to how the RAW function in cases like this. Perhaps there needs to be a FAW entry adding information somewhere down the line for creatures being polymorphed into objects?

[TetsujinOni]

Gee, this works out to a very similar question to "What the heck does a raktavarna's alter self do...."

[Xaratherus]

I have absolutely no opinion on the original post, or any answers, but I had to chime in to say that the phrase "sentient sofa druid" made my week. =)

[Drakkiel]

OK first off...unless it is Baleful Polymorph or PAO being used to duplicate Baleful Polymorph, the druid should never had been affected.

PAO works like greater Polymorph, in neither description does it say anything about bypassing this

Quote:

"You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you"

Now if you used PAO to imitate Baleful Polymorph that would have worked, but then you could not choose a sofa, it would work just like Baleful Polymorph, just a higher level version.

Wild shape is a SU ability but it is called out in the polymorph rules by the bolded section above

EDIT:So yes in the case of you wanting to turn someone into a sofa, alter self (along with other poly effects) will make them basically immune, that is what Baleful Polymorph is for, and why PAO can imitate that but with a higher DC since its now a level 8 spell

[Lincoln Hills]

Hm, so the favored (and most... fairy-tale-traditional) use of polymorph any object to render an enemy harmless needs to meet the same limitations as baleful polymorph? Good to know...

[Drakkiel]

what limitations? baleful polymorph instantly ends any other polymorph effects which is why it actually works against druids and such...unless im misreading your post in which case I am confused by it :(

[Andi A.]

I believe the comment is that if you use PAO to mimic Baleful (And thus cancel current Polymorphs), You are limited to a Small Animal, not a Sofa. If using PAO to Sofa someone, it won't work if they are already polymorphed.

[Claxon]

I guess a lot of characters are going to pop up with a Greater Hat of Disguise and use alter self to look like some random humanoid of the the same race and be virtually immune to polymorph.

Sometimes the rules have screwy consequences.

[Mike Lindner]

If you just follow how PAO works it cannot be cast on an unwilling target in the first place.

Polymorph Any Object: This spell functions like greater polymorph, except that it changes one object or creature into another.

Greater Polymorph: This spell functions as polymorph except that it allows the creature to take on the form of a dragon or plant creature.

Polymorph: This spell transforms a willing creature into an animal, humanoid or elemental of your choosing; the spell has no effect on unwilling creatures, nor can the creature being targeted by this spell influence the new form assumed (apart from conveying its wishes, if any, to you verbally).

Neither Greater Polymorph nor Polymorph Any Object override the willing targets only proviso of Polymorph.

[Drakkiel]

It can IF you use it to mimic Baleful Polymorph....but other than that its unwilling only