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So we all know and love Grease as one of the best level 1 spells in the game. You grease a 10 ft by 10 ft patch of floor, and bad guys look like they slipped on a banana peel in a Bugs Bunny cartoon. And that's just one possible use for it.
But what if you don't have a convenient 10x10 area of floor to grease? What if you're fighting one bad guy, your buddies are flanking him, and you only want to hit the square he's in, without hitting the squares your allies are in?
I came up with the idea of greasing the enemy's shoes, as a way of making a single enemy slip and fall, without covering a whole 10x10 area of floor. This has the added advantage of moving with the bad guy, unless they stop to take off their shoes, so they can't just walk out of the greased spot.
This isn't one of the standard uses mentioned in the spell description, so I just have to ask: Does anyone see any reason this shouldn't work?
"Target one object or 10-ft. square"
"The spell can also be used to create a greasy coating on an item. Material objects not in use are always affected by this spell, while an object wielded or employed by a creature requires its bearer to make a Reflex saving throw to avoid the effect. If the initial saving throw fails, the creature immediately drops the item. A saving throw must be made in each round that the creature attempts to pick up or use the greased item. A creature wearing greased armor or clothing gains a +10 circumstance bonus on Escape Artist checks and combat maneuver checks made to escape a grapple, and to their CMD to avoid being grappled."
That is the supported use for greasing an object. If they failed their reflex save, they would immediately drop their shoes. If they were able to wear the, they would gain a1- on escape artist checks and combat maneuver to escape grapples, and to their CMD for avoiding a grapple.
If you want it to do the area effect on an object, its house rules territory.
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I'm talking about greasing the outside of the shoes, so they slip and fall, not the inside of the shoes, so their feet slip out of them.
But this is my point: Spells don't always list EVERY possible usage. The ones mentioned in the description are the common ones. But there are other uses for making things slippery.
My point is you asked this in the Rules Questions forum. Which is for rules as they are written. I suggest you ask this in the House Rules forum, which is what using grease for a non-written use would fall under.
I'd like to grease the bottom of my own boots and go skiing sometimes.
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The assumption that a slippery object will be slippery isn't a house rule. It's the dictionary definition of the word "slippery".
Lots of spells can do more than just the specific, common examples given in the book. Silent Image specifically says it creates a "visual illusion of an object, creature, or force", yet I've seen discussions on these forums of using it to create an illusion of clouds, fog, walls, bodies of water, fake sections of floor, etc, none of which necessarily meet the game definition of "object, creature, or force". Would you say those illusions aren't allowed because they aren't specifically listed as example uses of the spell in the Core Rulebook?
My question was whether there's any RAW reason this shouldn't work. And no, the fact that it's not specifically listed as a possible usage isn't a valid answer. The book gives some of the possible uses, but the purpose of the spell is to make things slippery, and the exact object to be greased should be whatever the caster can see to target when casting it. It's the results of greasing the exterior of the boots that I'm asking about.
By RAW, the one argument I could maybe see against this usage is that you're only supposed to grease one object, so maybe it only works on one shoe per casting. But in the case of armor and clothing, you're usually going to be hitting multiple pieces, too, so that one's ify.
The assumption that a slippery object will be slippery isn't a house rule. It's the dictionary definition of the word "slippery".
Lots of spells can do more than just the specific, common examples given in the book. Silent Image specifically says it creates a "visual illusion of an object, creature, or force", yet I've seen discussions on these forums of using it to create an illusion of clouds, fog, walls, bodies of water, fake sections of floor, etc, none of which necessarily meet the game definition of "object, creature, or force". Would you say those illusions aren't allowed because they aren't specifically listed as example uses of the spell in the Core Rulebook?
My question was whether there's any RAW reason this shouldn't work. And no, the fact that it's not specifically listed as a possible usage isn't a valid answer. The book gives some of the possible uses, but the purpose of the spell is to make things slippery, and the exact object to be greased should be whatever the caster can see to target when casting it. It's the results of greasing the exterior of the boots that I'm asking about.
By RAW, the one argument I could maybe see against this usage is that you're only supposed to grease one object, so maybe it only works on one shoe per casting. But in the case of armor and clothing, you're usually going to be hitting multiple pieces, too, so that one's ify.
Clouds, fog, walls, bodies of water, floor are all objects.
RAW reasons it should work? It isn't listed as an ability. Armor is a singular item you can cast this spell on. Outfits are also a singular item. Boots are not listed anywhere. Boots are not an item.
As I said, by RAW, if you grease his boots, he gets a bonus to escape grapple checks, since "boots" falls under "clothing" and that is the listed bonus for wearing a greased item.
Uses not explicitly stated in the book are up to GM acceptance and the subject of the house rules forum.
Other reasons it shouldn't work? Because grease is balanced in effecting an area. If you wanted to research an alternate targeted grease that effects a single creature instead (like you are trying to make this do) I would reduce the duration to rounds/level and a successful save ends the effect. But again, that's house rules.
You know, if someone wanted to rescue a cat that was stuck in a tree and decided to cast Protection from Fire on the cat and then blast it out of the tree with a Fireball, I'd allow it.
That doesn't make it a RAW use of the Fireball spell.
Creative uses for spells, skills, tools, terrain, or whatever, should always be considered fairly and usually rewarded for the effort. Greasing the soles of an enemy's shoes is creative and entirely within the limits of the spell.
True, it's not RAW. And by RAW, the most you could hope for is making him drop his shoes or giving him a bonus to escape artist checks. In the strictest sense of a Rules Forum, that's the correct answer. But Rules Forums don't prohibit talking about innovative applications of the rules, especially if the RAW is already explicitly covered.
That said, making people fall with Grease is covered (no pun intended) by the spell, as is coating items. The OP just wants to blend these two things into one. I would say this is well within the purview of the spell and also fair and balanced (no pun intended). The one caveat I would add is that Grease is supposed to have a 10' area so coating the guy's soles will work while he's in that area, but if he moves far enough (out of the area), the effect wears off (his walking has rubbed off enough grease onto the ground that his shoes are not slippery anymore).
Arguably, this could have some balance issues (no pun intended). The one possible drawback to greasing a 10'x10' area is that you might affect your allies with the spell by accident. Using this application removes that worry - it's almost like casting a Fireball on a battle containing your friends and enemies but making it so the Fireball only hurts your enemies. That's a big benefit for Fireball and it might also be a big benefit for Grease.
Just remember, whatever you can think of, the enemies can think of, so if the OP thinks he's found a sneaky new trick, he has to worry about his enemies figuring out how to use it on him.
It's the same effect as greasing a surface. It is a surface, the bottom of a pair of boots. It works the same, just fine. That's by raw as much as any rules questions are, here.
There are rules for greasing an object. The fact that grease lasts for 1 min/level and not 1 round/level are why I wouldn't allow it. Balance reasons.
Or is it also RAW to drop your boots as a free action and completely negate the effect?
I'd like to grease the bottom of my own boots and go skiing sometimes.
No joke: the wizard PC in my game has Grease and Hydraulic Push. He then began toying with the idea of taking Craft Wondrous Item. My own immediate suggestion was a pair of magic boots and a cloak: greased boots to give him speed, the cloak to shoot water, and a combined effect (like a magic item set) that would propel him great distances across flat surfaces!
... he said he didn't think so.
The planned use for the spell doesn't appear to pose a balance problem, but could open a minor can of worms if applied as a general rule. If you can grease someone's boots to make them slippery, can you...
- Grease the pads of a monster's feet to force it to balance? Would this prevent it from climbing, running, or charging?
- Grease a worn object, such as a circlet, goggles, or a gauntlet, to make them fall off the wearer?
- Grease an invisible foe to make them visible? (That's also not mentioned in the spell description, but doesn't seem outrageous...)
While I'm fond of allowing nonstandard interpretations of a spell's effects, there are some players who make GMs wish that they hadn't allowed such things.
I'd like to grease the bottom of my own boots and go skiing sometimes.No joke: the wizard PC in my game has Grease and Hydraulic Push. He then began toying with the idea of taking Craft Wondrous Item. My own immediate suggestion was a pair of magic boots and a cloak: greased boots to give him speed, the cloak to shoot water, and a combined effect (like a magic item set) that would propel him great distances across flat surfaces!
... he said he didn't think so.
I don't think it would work either unless it was a very flat surface. Fun idea though.
Edit: I'm reminded of the decanter of endless water jetpack.