What happens if you combine these? The obvious answer would be that if you double something twice, in 3e/3.5e/PF, you triple it, so you can make 3,000gp per day. The one counterargument I could see is that one of these is halving the time taken to produce 1000gp, not doubling the value per day, and the other is doubling the value per day, which would let you make 4k per day.
The rules on multiplying being added percentages (x2 = +100%) only applies to numbers and variables involved in die rolls. For static game numbers, such as carrying capacity, overland movement, and hours spent crafting, normal multiplication applies.
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The rules on multiplying being added percentages (x2 = +100%) only applies to numbers and variables involved in die rolls. For static game numbers, such as carrying capacity, overland movement, and hours spent crafting, normal multiplication applies.
Do you have a reference for that? Not saying you're wrong, but most interpretations I've seen went the other way.
feat is a change of the normal rules. so first need to see how the normal rules work.
no dc increase - 8 hours to craft up to 1000 gp base
dc +5 - take 4 hours to craft up to 1000 gp. and since you can spend up to 8 hours each day it allow to have 4 more hours for 1000 more gp.
now the feat comes..lets look at what happen if you only craft for 4 hours with +5 dc?
normal +5 - as said above - can make up to 1000 gp.
feat+ 4 hours as +5 increase to dc - double the daily to 2000 in 4 hours.
and now look at doing the whole 8 hours is easy to see:
4 hours + 4 hours = 2000 + 2000 = 4000 daily.
as for crafting while advnturing. the phrase is worded just right:
"devote 4 hours each day to item creation, although he nets only 2 hours' worth of work." you get 2 hours worth of work out of whatever base you use for the normal 8 hours so:
normal with no increase of dc - spend 4 hours but gain net of 2 hours worth of work - 250 gp done.
with increase of dc by 5 - the work is now at a 1000 gp per 4 hours - 2000 per 8 hours . so a work of 4 hours with a net of 2 hours from the new base will give - 500 gp.
now put in the feat and you get doulbe the daily amount done:
with increase of dc but no feat - as said above get you 500 per 4 hours work (netting 2 worth).
with feat and dc - double that to 1000 gp worth with 4 hours work (netting of 2 hours worth.)
Whatever the case, you can only create 1 item/day. That begs the question: how many spells can you actually fit on a scroll?
Whatever the case, you can only create 1 item/day. That begs the question: how many spells can you actually fit on a scroll?
My understanding has always been as many as you are willing to risk losing on a single scroll getting destroyed.
you can fit as many as you want. very large and hugh scrolls are known to have been writen in the real world. BUT you can only write one spell on the scroll each day:
link
"Time Required Scribing a scroll requires 1 day per 1,000 gp of the base price. Although an individual scroll might contain more than one spell, each spell must be scribed as a separate effort, meaning that no more than 1 spell can be scribed in a day."
as for how many, doesn't seem to have a limit, you acn calculate how heavy it is by finding out the length of sheets used
"Physical Description: A scroll is a heavy sheet of fine vellum or high-quality paper. An area about 8-1/2 inches wide and 11 inches long is sufficient to hold one spell. The sheet is reinforced at the top and bottom with strips of leather slightly longer than the sheet is wide. A scroll holding more than one spell has the same width (about 8-1/2 inches) but is an extra foot or so long for each additional spell. Scrolls that hold three or more spells are usually fitted with reinforcing rods at each end rather than simple strips of leather."
if we asume a page of a jurnal is about a foot long then you can do the math:
"Journal This is a blank, lightweight book with an oilskin cover. It has 50 paper pages. Price 10 gp; Weight 1 lb."
each jusrnal page is rughly(not taking cover into acount) 1/50 of a pound.
So to keep pace with the dozens of scrolls I'll need at 1st and 2nd level to make my familiar viable in combat until I get wands and Alter Self... I need to take a MONTH to scribe them?
So to keep pace with the dozens of scrolls I'll need at 1st and 2nd level to make my familiar viable in combat until I get wands and Alter Self... I need to take a MONTH to scribe them?
In the magic item creation general preamble, it states that scrolls and potions costing less than 250gp only require 2 hours to make. Of course, it then restates that you can still only make one magic item per day.
However, it seems to be a very reasonable house rule to allow up to 4 spells to he scribed per day if they are all cheap ones.
Do you have a reference for that? Not saying you're wrong, but most interpretations I've seen went the other way.
No problem.
When you are asked to apply more than one multiplier to a roll, the multipliers are not multiplied by one another. Instead, you combine them into a single multiplier, with each extra multiple adding 1 less than its value to the first multiple. For example, if you are asked to apply a ×2 multiplier twice, the result would be ×3, not ×4.
Bold is mine. The rule only ever specifies what to do with multipliers on rolls, making an an acceptation altering normal math for the game balance. If a roll is not involved, normal math takes precedence.
So to keep pace with the dozens of scrolls I'll need at 1st and 2nd level to make my familiar viable in combat until I get wands and Alter Self... I need to take a MONTH to scribe them?In the magic item creation general preamble, it states that scrolls and potions costing less than 250gp only require 2 hours to make. Of course, it then restates that you can still only make one magic item per day.
However, it seems to be a very reasonable house rule to allow up to 4 spells to he scribed per day if they are all cheap ones.
yes i was sure you can do up to 4 scrolls\potions a day when i first read that part about 2 hours.
then the scroll part that specifcly said only one scorll a day( i linked it up in my preveius post) killed it. i think each part was writen by some1 else and they forgot to talk among them..
A thought experiment: your Valet familiar is considered to have the same item creation feats as you right? It also has your skill ranks? What if you transform it into a form that can hold things and speak, then have it work on the items. You just need to cast the spells. Since it can work on said items while you're adventuring you could have the creature working by day while you battle evil, say in an extradimensional space like a haversack or something, then you add the appropriate spells at key junctures in the process.
Alternately if you've got downtime the two of you could be working back to back but on different projects. He's writing a scroll, you're brewing a potion; you're putting the finishing touches on a wand, she's hemming a magic cloak.
Just get a psuedodragon familiar with the specific spells you want to have crafted. Have it craft for however long, dismiss it and then get a new one.
Get said familiar into a guild so he can raise his casting level and craft higher level spells for you too.
A thought experiment: your Valet familiar is considered to have the same item creation feats as you right? It also has your skill ranks? What if you transform it into a form that can hold things and speak, then have it work on the items. You just need to cast the spells. Since it can work on said items while you're adventuring you could have the creature working by day while you battle evil, say in an extradimensional space like a haversack or something, then you add the appropriate spells at key junctures in the process.
Alternately if you've got downtime the two of you could be working back to back but on different projects. He's writing a scroll, you're brewing a potion; you're putting the finishing touches on a wand, she's hemming a magic cloak.
as long as he doesn't craft anything heavy you don't need a valet familiar with hands.
for that the valet get : "Prestidigitation (Sp): A valet can use prestidigitation once per hour."with that he can lift objects up to 1 lb with his mind,don't need hands unless he makes something heavy. and in that case. use an invisible servant to help him.
the spell has 1 hour duration. he can recast it every hour = all day long.
A thought experiment: your Valet familiar is considered to have the same item creation feats as you right? It also has your skill ranks? What if you transform it into a form that can hold things and speak, then have it work on the items. You just need to cast the spells. Since it can work on said items while you're adventuring you could have the creature working by day while you battle evil, say in an extradimensional space like a haversack or something, then you add the appropriate spells at key junctures in the process.
Alternately if you've got downtime the two of you could be working back to back but on different projects. He's writing a scroll, you're brewing a potion; you're putting the finishing touches on a wand, she's hemming a magic cloak.
Does not work that way. Cooperative crafting states: If you need another character to supply one of an item's requirements (such as if you're a wizard creating an item with a divine spell), both you and the other character must be present for the entire duration of the crafting process.
/cevah
A thought experiment: your Valet familiar is considered to have the same item creation feats as you right? It also has your skill ranks? What if you transform it into a form that can hold things and speak, then have it work on the items. You just need to cast the spells. Since it can work on said items while you're adventuring you could have the creature working by day while you battle evil, say in an extradimensional space like a haversack or something, then you add the appropriate spells at key junctures in the process.
Alternately if you've got downtime the two of you could be working back to back but on different projects. He's writing a scroll, you're brewing a potion; you're putting the finishing touches on a wand, she's hemming a magic cloak.
Does not work that way. Cooperative crafting states: If you need another character to supply one of an item's requirements (such as if you're a wizard creating an item with a divine spell), both you and the other character must be present for the entire duration of the crafting process.
/cevah
This. Almost. However, Mark detailed two scenarios. I'll weigh in on both.
Having the familiar craft in an extra-dimensional space while the master travels - you'd still only net the two hours of work each day because with Cooperative Crafting both parties making the item are contributing to it, effectively splitting the duties involved in the crafting.
Having the master and familiar both craft different items at the same time, without any contribution from the other - unless the familiar could supply the required requisite spells/item/etc., then it would be difficult for the familiar to craft the item on it's own, without jacking up the DC by 5 for each requisite missing. Further, the Master would not be able to contribute those requisite spells/items/etc. while crafting a different item, as you can only craft one item at a time. Although, if your Spellcraft is high enough that the increase to the Spellcraft DC is negligible, then that scenario becomes possible.
Additionally, as mentioned above, you would not need to transform the Familiar into anything else for either scnario due to the Prestidigitation 1/day.
A thought experiment: your Valet familiar is considered to have the same item creation feats as you right? It also has your skill ranks? What if you transform it into a form that can hold things and speak, then have it work on the items. You just need to cast the spells. Since it can work on said items while you're adventuring you could have the creature working by day while you battle evil, say in an extradimensional space like a haversack or something, then you add the appropriate spells at key junctures in the process.
Alternately if you've got downtime the two of you could be working back to back but on different projects. He's writing a scroll, you're brewing a potion; you're putting the finishing touches on a wand, she's hemming a magic cloak.
A valet's master treats the valet as if it possessed the Cooperative Crafting feat and shared all Craft skills and item creation feats he possesses.
This ability replaces Alertness.
The language of the ability says that the familiar is not actually gaining any feats. Just that the master can have the familiar treated as an assistant and provide the +2 Aid Another bonus. The familiar can't be the one crafting, since it doesn't meet the requirement of having the relevant crafting feat.