Souls after they die

[Krico]

So I've read a good chunk of Gods and Magic, the life cycle of the soul, etc. My question is, do dead creatures retain their power when in the river or souls/when they reach Pharasma's court? When they reach their final destination? Could a powerful enough neutral evil warrior who died and wound up in Abaddon fight off the lesser daemons of the plane for a while?

[Jeven]

I think souls are divvied up amongst the gods. So at Pharasma's Court that evil soul would be grabbed and dragged off to Abaddon by powerful servants of a fitting evil god. Souls in the lower planes often become building blocks for other things, such as fiends.

You could possibly escape before reaching Pharasma's Court and return to the Material Plane, but as you are dead you would probably return as some type of incorporeal undead like a ghost, wraith or spectre.

[Cpt_kirstov]

I would recommend reading Death's Heretic

[Cpt_kirstov]

Cpt_kirstov wrote:

I would recommend reading Death's Heretic

To clarify this post from last night, the main character's job is to find out what is happening when a soul doesn't go where it should upon death. They track the first few steps of this path, and talk pretty extensively about the others throughout the book. And its a great read

[Karuth]

In the descriptions of demons, devils and daemons you sometimes find how they are born.

Such as the Dretch.
Dretches typically form from the souls of slothful, evil mortals—yet it only takes a small fragment of a soul to trigger such a hideous birth. A single soul can often trigger the manifestation of a small army of dretches.

If you assume a soul turns into something similar to a ghost then heroes focusing on the physical attributes will be rather powerless, while heroes focusing on the mental attributes would still be rather powerful.

From most adventures and stories I have played/read it is mostly an act of willpower. If your will is stronger than the place you are sent to you can keep your form and mind (however this is a constant struggle) and thus can fight for your life. If not you are transformed into something, depending on your power.
If you are very powerful you might even immediately transform into a higher Demon/Devil whatever and can keep your mind (mostly) intact which would also allow fighting back (or just join the evil side).

[Vamptastic]

That would be a pretty cool campaign, actually. The party, post-death, adventuring through the afterlife. If they're of different alignment, maybe having to find each other again, etc.

[darkwarriorkarg]

Perhaps a few exceptional souls, not wanting to die just yet, can force themselved to escape Pharasma's judgement

[Zhangar]

darkwarriorkarg wrote:

Perhaps a few exceptional souls, not wanting to die just yet, can force themselved to escape Pharasma's judgement

Those are called the Undead.

[Krico]

Jeven wrote:

I think souls are divvied up amongst the gods. So at Pharasma's Court that evil soul would be grabbed and dragged off to Abaddon by powerful servants of a fitting evil god. Souls in the lower planes often become building blocks for other things, such as fiends.

You could possibly escape before reaching Pharasma's Court and return to the Material Plane, but as you are dead you would probably return as some type of incorporeal undead like a ghost, wraith or spectre.

It's my understanding that when a person dies, their soul immediately enters the channel in the astral plane going towards Pharasma's bone yard. Some with a strong attachment to the world, who fall into the ethereal plane and become ghosts, usually going insane either in the process or shortly after. In rare circumstances, one of them finds their way back to their body (or at least A body), becoming intelligent corporeal undead (like the first undead who became a goddess in the process).

But that's not what I'm referring to. After they get into the channel, they are sometimes plucked out by hags or deamons, but will often have protectors, especially if associated with a specific deity. I'm guessing while in the channel, souls are pretty well asleep and helpless.

Most of the time they don't even stop in the court though. If their place is clear, they're just shuffled from there into their respective plane, never leaving the channel until they reach their destination. If they have a more duelistic nature, they stop at the court and outsiders from the planes to which they might belong plead their case to that person (with the obvious exception of deamon's who aren't allowed in the spire). They have the choice of where they wind up. The only time Pharasma steps in is when there's a contractual dispute (one example given is a person who sells their soul to a devil, but spends the rest of their life trying to redeem themselves). In this case, Pharasma decides where they wind up, usually in a very complicated and difficult to predict verdict.

My question I suppose is more about their final destination than anything. The ghost template for example, doesn't drop dex, but drops strength and con. They do however gain a number of other abilities depending on how powerful the creature is that becomes a ghost. The problem is a soul is not a ghost. A ghost is created when a soul falls out of the stream and into the ethereal plane (or never makes it to the stream to begin with I suppose).

Some of the plane descriptions talk about people who try to physically perfect themselves, or fight in martial tournaments, so you apparently have some equivalent of a body. The question is...how much does it resemble the original, and how much do you lose?

I really do want to read Death's Heretic. I've read good things about it. Can't afford to pick it up at the moment unfortunately though. -_-

[kmal2t]

They go up to play with Grandma and your pet Rabbit in the heaven.

[gamer-printer]

Krico wrote:

Could a powerful enough neutral evil warrior who died and wound up in Abaddon fight off the lesser daemons of the plane for a while?

One's soul ending up in Abaddon is not the same thing as a PC using some form of extraplanar travel going to Abaddon to fight lesser demons. Souls of the dead aren't generally PCs anymore.

[the David]

Krico wrote:

So I've read a good chunk of Gods and Magic, the life cycle of the soul, etc. My question is, do dead creatures retain their power when in the river or souls/when they reach Pharasma's court? When they reach their final destination? Could a powerful enough neutral evil warrior who died and wound up in Abaddon fight off the lesser daemons of the plane for a while?

No. They become Petitioners. As Petitioners they can then become lesser and even greater Deamons. (For example)

[Krico]

the David wrote:

Krico wrote:

So I've read a good chunk of Gods and Magic, the life cycle of the soul, etc. My question is, do dead creatures retain their power when in the river or souls/when they reach Pharasma's court? When they reach their final destination? Could a powerful enough neutral evil warrior who died and wound up in Abaddon fight off the lesser daemons of the plane for a while?

No. They become Petitioners. As Petitioners they can then become lesser and even greater Deamons. (For example)

Perfect! Thank you!

[Gnoll Bard]

It is worth noting that sometimes (very rarely) exceptionally powerful souls arrive in the Great Beyond already in the form of a more advanced outsider. The only cases of this happening that I can think of off the top of my head are demons, though, so the phenomenon may be unique to the abyss.

Incidentally, souls that wind up in Abbadon literally *fall* into the plane, and many are devoured by daemons before they even hit the ground. Faithful followers of a deity may escape such a fate if their god chooses to collect them after they perish; in fact, Norgorber's domain isn't even *in* Abbadon. That being said, you probably don't want to count on a Neutral Evil deity to be looking out for your best interests in the afterlife. :P