Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games
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So, The Genius Guide to the Talented Rogue isn't out yet (soon, I hope). But I shared this teaser section on Facebook, and some folks who don't like/don't use Facebook found out about that and asked if I'd share it here, sooo.....
Save Vs. Wall of Text
Because it includes well more than 175 edges, talents, advanced talents, and grand talents, getting through the talented rogue class write-up can be daunting. Once a character has been written up its easy to look any selected edges and talents if they are presented alphabetically, but when thinking about what talent to take next the abilities can form a nigh-impenetrable “wall of text.”
To help with this issue we’ve categorized all the edges and talents into the following themes and sub themes, based on common rogue character concepts: Defensive (general and saving throws), Flexible Customization, Magic/Mysticism, Movement, Offensive (general and sneak attack), Traps, and Skills (with several sub-categories for specific skills). Each talent gives its name and notes if it is an edge, advanced talent, or grand talent. This allows a GM or player looking for a new option to see which edges and talents are most likely to match his desired character concept without reading through the entire list of options.
Defensive (General)
Another Day (advanced)
Blade Sense (edge)
Defensive Roll (advanced)
Deflect Arrows
Hardy (edge)
Hold Breath
Improved Uncanny Dodge (edge)
Offensive Defense
Redirect Attack (advanced)
Resiliency
Slow Metabolism
Snatch Arrows
Uncanny Dodge (edge)
Defensive (Saving Throws)
Daring (edge)
Divine Purpose (edge)
Evasion (edge)
Hard to Fool (advanced)
Improved Evasion (advanced)
Iron Guts
Slippery Mind (advanced)
Unbending (edge)
Unflinching (edge)
Flexible Customization
Feat (advanced)
Forgotten Talent
Talent (edge)
Magic/Mysticism
Divine Epiphany
Endure Elements
Familiar (advanced)
Feather Fall
Ghost Step (advanced)
Hidden Master (grand)
Invisible Blade (advanced)
Ki Talent
Ki Pool (edge)
Major Magic
Major Petition
Minor Magic
Minor Petition
Mystic Disguise (advanced)
See the Unseen (advanced)
Shadow Clone
Shadow Split (advanced)
Unbound Steps (advanced)
Vanishing Trick
Ventriloquism
Movement
Driver’s Fortune
Expert Leaper
Fast Getaway
Fast Tumble (advanced)
Getaway Artist
Getaway Master (advanced)
Ghost Step (advanced)
Hard Drive
High Jumper
Ledge Walker
Light Steps
Positioning Attack
Rogue Crawl
Roof Running (edge)
Rope Master
Sea Legs
Spring Up
Stand Up
Swinging Reposition
Terrain Mastery
Tumbling Descent
Wall Climber
Offensive (General)
Accuracy
Adaptable Flanker
Ambush (edge)
Assault Leader
Blinding Bomb (advanced)
Choking Bomb
Combat Swipe
Combat Trick
Convincing Lie
Deadly Cocktail (advanced)
Deadly Shuriken (advanced)
Finesse Rogue
Firearm Training
Flurry of Stars
Greater Finesse
Grit
Gut Stab
Instant Poison (advanced)
Ki Block
Ki Pool (edge)
Ki Charge
Lasting Poison
Martial Mastery
Martial Training (edge)
Master of Poisons (advanced)
Master Poisoner
Ninja Training
Opportunist (advanced)
Poison Bomb
Poison Use (edge)
Shank
Smoke Bomb
Snap Shot
Strong Impression
Swift Poison
Unarmed Combat Training
Unarmed Combat Mastery (advanced)
Weapon Training
Offensive (Sneak Attack)
Angel of Death (advanced)
Assassinate (advanced)
Befuddling Strike
Bleeding Attack
Bravado’s Blade (edge)
Brutal Beating
Confounding Blades (advanced)
Crippling Strike (advanced)
Deadly Range
Deadly Sneak (advanced)
Dispelling Attack (advanced)
Distracting Attack
Entanglement of Blades (advanced)
Fearsome Strike
Hunter’s Surprise (advanced)
Knock-Out Blow (advanced)
Master Strike (grand)
Offensive Defense
Powerful Sneak
Pressure Points
Scout’s Charge (edge)
Skirmisher (edge)
Slow Reactions
Sneak Attack
Sneak Stab
Sniper’s Eye
Style Master
Surprise Attack
True Death (advanced)
Underhanded
Unwitting Ally (advanced)
Traps
Careful Disarm (edge)
Cunning Trigger
Frugal Trapsmith (advanced)
Quick Disable
Quick Trapsmith
Trap Master
Trap Sense (edge)
Trap Spotter
Trapfinding (edge)
Skills (General)
Master expert (grand)
Ninja Training
Skill Mastery (advanced)
Survivalist
Skills (Acrobatics)
Acrobatic Master
Daring (edge)
Expert Acrobat (edge)
Fast Tumble (advanced)
Ki Pool (edge)
Ledge Walker
Peerless Maneuver
Second Chance (edge)
Skills (Bluff)
Coax Information
Natural Born Liar (edge)
Honeyed Words
Rake’s Smile (edge)
Rumormongering (advanced)
Skilled Lair (edge)
Skills (Climb)
Expert Acrobat (edge)
Nimble Climber
Second Chance (edge)
Wall Scramble
Skills (Diplomacy)
Black Market Connections
Charmer
Coax Information
Follow Up (edge)
Rake’s Smile (edge)
Skills (Disable Device)
Careful Disarm (edge)
Quick Disable
Trap Master
Trapfinding (edge)
Undetected Sabotage’
Skills (Disguise)
No Trace (edge)
Quick Disguise
Master of Disguise (advanced)
Mystic Disguise (advanced)
Sudden Disguise
Skills (Fly)
Expert Acrobat (edge)
Getaway Artist
Second Chance (edge)
Skills (Intimidate)
Frightening (edge)
Skills (Linguistics)
Guileful Polyglot
Skills (Knowledge)
Esoteric Scholar
Thoughtful Reexamination (advanced)
Skills (Perception)
Canny Observer
Darkvision
Follow Clues
Thoughtful Reexamination (advanced)
Trapfinding (edge)
Skills (Sense Motive)
Hard to Fool
Thoughtful Reexamination (advanced)
Skills (Sleight of Hand)
Deft Palm
Expert Acrobat (edge)
Fast Fingers
Hidden Weapons
Measure the Mark (edge)
Stab and Grab (edge)
Underhanded
Weapon Snatcher (advanced)
Skills (Stealth)
Camouflage
Distraction
Effortless Sneak (edge)
Expert Acrobat (edge)
Fast Stealth
Hide in Plain Sight (advanced)
Misdirection (edge)
No Trace (edge)
Stealthy Sniper (advanced)
Skills (Swim)
Strong Stroke
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This looks good, real good. I can't wait to pick this up, because I know once this is done maybe the Talented Monk is not too far behind. I loved the Talented Fighter 1 and 2, this one should be awesome too.
Owen! What are you doing, man? I'm just a poor boy, from a fixed and badly regulated government income! And you guys just keep on keepin' on!
On a serious note, I'm not that interested in a talented monk personally. I'd rather see other classes get some attention first. My personal favorite is the inquisitor, and in specific the non-spell casting justicar. Oh, the things I could do with a list of talents for that!
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Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games
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This looks good, real good. I can't wait to pick this up, because I know once this is done maybe the Talented Monk is not too far behind. I loved the Talented Fighter 1 and 2, this one should be awesome too.
I had actually expected Talented Monk to beat Talented Rogue to market... but that's not how the playtesting worked out. :)
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At this rate, you might have to start a "Talented Classes" line!
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Aww, and here i thought this post meant the talented rogue is up. This looks like its going to be a MASSIVE product. With a 175 talents, even if they are mostly reprints/adjusted existing talents. I guess its a good thing that pdfs dont add to printing costs for products. Its also a good thing I bought a new laser printer. HP should send you guys a service fee, since SGG is 90% of the reason i bought it. I just about killed my old inkjet printing up several binders full of super genius products. I've got binders full of geniuses!
That said...whats an edge? You say edges talents and advanced talents. I handle on what talents and advanced talents are, are edges going to be all the things in the rogue and its archetypes that are not talents? IE trapfinding, uncanny dodge, sneak attack etc?
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Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games
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This looks like its going to be a MASSIVE product.
I think it comes out to 27 pages.
That said...whats an edge? You say edges talents and advanced talents. I handle on what talents and advanced talents are, are edges going to be all the things in the rogue and its archetypes that are not talents? IE trapfinding, uncanny dodge, sneak attack etc?
Since you asked!
"Rogue Edges
Every rogue has a unique outlook on life, which colors what threats she takes seriously, what esoteric skills she studies, and what kinds of tricks and knacks she picks up. These abilities, known as edges, help a rogue act as an assassin, scout, expert treasure locator, or some combination of roles that appeal to her in particular. A rogue gains an edge at 1st level, and additional edges at 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 8th level, and a final edge at 20th level.
Edges are similar to rogue talents, but are more fundamental to her background and worldview, and require constant and regular practice to keep effective. As a result there’s a limit to how many edges a rogue
can have, and most edges must be selected early in the rogue’s career. While a rogue gains multiple edges over her first few levels, those acquisitions represent the culmination of years (possibly a lifetime) of effort and study. A rogue may not decide to take the evasion edge until 4th level, but she has been thinking about how to escape explosions and practicing her ideas for long years before her acumen rises to the level of that edge.
A rogue may not take an edge more than once unless it specifies otherwise. Some edges are taken from various rogue archetypes. These
edges include the name of their originating archetype as a descriptor, to allow GMs to limit characters to edges from a single archetype (if desired)."
So both trapfinding and uncanny dodge are edges, while sneak attack has become a talent you can take multiple times (but not more than half your level, round up).
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So basically you are trying very hard to convince me to play a straight rogue for the first time in about 15 years...though I would probably just redesign my ninja to use this instead of the straight ninja, since it would allow me to get trapfinding back, and apply archetypes i couldnt normally apply because of clashes in replaced abilities.
Owen, if the playtesting for the Talented Monk is still going on, how can I get involved in that?
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Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games
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Owen, if the playtesting for the Talented Monk is still going on, how can I get involved in that?
I don't know if I am going to have another round of it or not, but send me an email (OStephens at, believe it or not aol) and I'll let you know if another set of files goes out and how to be involved.
Owen, due to the Rogue being somewhat underpowered (in many player’s minds) we have added the extra options (Guile pool & Ambush) from Drop Dead Studios “The Glory Rogue" and are quite happy with these extra abilities to date. What I am wondering is if these extra options are given to the Rogue under your new "The Talented Rogue" product, would this, in your opinion make the Rogue over powered. If not I am also wondering due to these abilities being given @ 2nd & 3rd levels could I allow them to be swapped out for other Talents.
What is guile pool? and ambush? If guile pool for instance works similar to a ninja ki pool but is themed for the rogue, you could include it as an edge that can be chosen.
What is guile pool? and ambush? If guile pool for instance works similar to a ninja ki pool but is themed for the rogue, you could include it as an edge that can be chosen.
Now that it's been uploaded to Paizo and our other sales venues, you won't have to wait long. And if you've got Dungeonaday.com access you can get it now. :)
And The Genius Guide to the Talented Rogue is now live!
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Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games
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Sorry for those who were teaser, you can now get The Talented Rogue here on Paizo!
EDIT: Ninja'd by my own Minister of Propaganda!
Ninja'd... on a Rogue book...
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Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games
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Owen, due to the Rogue being somewhat underpowered (in many player’s minds) we have added the extra options (Guile pool & Ambush) from Drop Dead Studios “The Glory Rogue" and are quite happy with these extra abilities to date. What I am wondering is if these extra options are given to the Rogue under your new "The Talented Rogue" product, would this, in your opinion make the Rogue over powered. If not I am also wondering due to these abilities being given @ 2nd & 3rd levels could I allow them to be swapped out for other Talents.
If your classic rogues with Guile Pools & Ambush, the all the talents from all the Paizo books, aren't overpowered then you should have no problem adding them to The Talented Rogue.
That said I think Kolokotroni is right, and you should make them edges (which will make sense when you get the pdf). Have requirements of 2nd and 3rd level as edges, and they should work great!
I think you guys just made an adventuring Expert possible.
Side question, as I just skimmed through the PDF, for now. Did you include material from the Shadow Assassin as part of this?
And you have more of my money :) Thanks as always.
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Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games
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I think you guys just made an adventuring Expert possible.
Certainly you can built such a character - I think it would take the "right" campaign and play style for it to seem like a good choice to other players. Although I confess, a playtest group did tell me their party of "three very different talented rogues, and a cleric" did just fine. :)
Side question, as I just skimmed through the PDF, for now. Did you include material from the Shadow Assassin as part of this?
I did not. I thought about it long and hard, and in the end I couldn't make time for the additional playtesting.
Certainly it should be possible to turn deadly focus, shadow meld, and shadow styles into edges, and make shadow talents accessible if you have the right edge. But I haven't checked what happens if you have easy access to sneak attack and deadly focus, for example. It might be necessary to go the same route as shank, and forbid deadly focus and sneak attack and shank from working together.
Shadow talents don't worry me as much, if there's a shadow meld edge prerequisite.
This is the sort of thing I might discuss in a sidebar in a shadow assassin revision.
Adding the Shadow Assassin material, with the right balance, would make this extremely awesome for running a converted Eberron game. Making the Shadow stuff available only to those from the Mark of Shadow Houses.
Reviewed.
I don't give showers of praise to anyone easily. This product more than deserves it.
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On a serious note, I'm not that interested in a talented monk personally. I'd rather see other classes get some attention first. My personal favorite is the inquisitor, and in specific the non-spell casting justicar. Oh, the things I could do with a list of talents for that!
Count me in on wanting more love for the justicar. Maybe roll it together with the witch hunter?
Count me in on wanting more love for the justicar. Maybe roll it together with the witch hunter?
On a serious note, I'm not that interested in a talented monk personally. I'd rather see other classes get some attention first. My personal favorite is the inquisitor, and in specific the non-spell casting justicar. Oh, the things I could do with a list of talents for that!
YES! I've thought the same thing!
Is there a tentative release date for the Talented Monk?I dislike giving dates for things still in development, as it's tricky to know how long that process is going to take. that said, I'd guess sometime in June.
For sure. It's worth the extra wait for that little bit of polish on something. A Talented line would be interesting for sure.